Alternatives to Patreon - Maybe for Adult games

[OhWee]

Here's the website for the payment processor they are talking to, as it relates to adult oriented merchants:

You must be registered to see the links

Note that they aren't working through paypal, etc. and that several adult sites process their payments using this or similar services.

From what I've read, it's not that Visa or Mastercard WON'T allow certain content, just that they like to charge extra for what they deem as high risk charges (as these tend to generate more chargebacks).

Paypal, Stripe, etc. don't want to be bothered with 'high risk' charges, hence this is why their current T.O.S. read as they do. Sure, they could set up a separate tier for high risk accounts, with much higher fees, but they simply choose not to.

Of course, if you have more specific information (i.e. Terms of Service) that you can point people to, that might be helpful. But adult sites have been charging people's credit cards for decades now, and nothing has changed recently as far as I know. I.E. go to Bangbros, they still ask for a credit card. And they still have videos featuring step-incest...

Of course, if a creator decides to market content that crosses into flat out illegal territory, well at that point it's between them and whatever government that decides to enforce various laws (i.e. throw them in jail for loli/toddlercon content on their computer, etc.). And I woudn't expect Sponsorion to allow that. Note that this forum doesn't allow it either (loli/toddlercon is not allowed here).

Of course, we'll just have to wait and see what Sponsorion's T.O.S. are when(if) they officially launch.

 

[gamersglory]

Here's the website for the payment processor they are talking to, as it relates to adult oriented merchants:

You must be registered to see the links

Note that they aren't working through paypal, etc. and that several adult sites process their payments using this or similar services.

From what I've read, it's not that Visa or Mastercard WON'T allow certain content, just that they like to charge extra for what they deem as high risk charges (as these tend to generate more chargebacks).

Paypal, Stripe, etc. don't want to be bothered with 'high risk' charges, hence this is why their current T.O.S. read as they do. Sure, they could set up a separate tier for high risk accounts, with much higher fees, but they simply choose not to.

Of course, if you have more specific information (i.e. Terms of Service) that you can point people to, that might be helpful. But adult sites have been charging people's credit cards for decades now, and nothing has changed recently as far as I know. I.E. go to Bangbros, they still ask for a credit card. And they still have videos featuring step-incest...

Of course, if a creator decides to market content that crosses into flat out illegal territory, well at that point it's between them and whatever government that decides to enforce various laws (i.e. throw them in jail for loli/toddlercon content on their computer, etc.). And I woudn't expect Sponsorion to allow that. Note that this forum doesn't allow it either (loli/toddlercon is not allowed here).

Of course, we'll just have to wait and see what Sponsorion's T.O.S. are when(if) they officially launch.

I know EMB when I was looking for a payment processor for my site and Yes MasterCard Bans Incest, Rape, Beastalty and other things.

It's part of Mastercards Business Risk Assessment and Mitigation (BRAM) Program

 

[HiEv]

Sponsorion Won't or can't allow content banned by Visa and Mastercard as there payment processing will get canceled and they will be blacklisted. NO EXCEPTIONS

That's not actually true, provided you go through a high risk payment processor. If they're a registered

You must be registered to see the links

(MSP) then the transaction goes through them and they dictate the rules, so Visa and MasterCard purchases can be for "high risk" services through them. (

You must be registered to see the links

)

While you're correct most of the time for a typical payment service, you're incorrect in the specific case of high risk payment processors and MSPs.

 

[gamersglory]

That's not actually true, provided you go through a high risk payment processor. If they're a registered

You must be registered to see the links

(MSP) then the transaction goes through them and they dictate the rules, so Visa and MasterCard purchases can be for "high risk" services through them. (

You must be registered to see the links

)

While you're correct most of the time for a typical payment service, you're incorrect in the specific case of high risk payment processors and MSPs.

Did all the research before like I said I'm setting up a site too.

Always read the fine print

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[Mwanted]

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recently updated their webpage. Looks like they might be on track for a launch in the next month or two... at least that's what they are shooting for.

There's a few more details on their page now, including the fee schedule that they are planning on.

Fantastic, thanks for the heads up.

 

[OhWee]

Note that, by that logic, no one could buy Game of Thrones DVDs with a Visa or Mastercard (Cercie and Jaime), or any movie that features rape (even if it's just R rated)... I'm sure others can cite numerous examples.

Regarding rape, here's a list of 15 fairly well known movies with rape in them:

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Yeah, I guess the gal getting attacked by the trees in Evil Dead is actually a rape scene... this seems to happen in horror movies every now and then.

But, it is not lost on me that all (or nearly all?) recently released 'incest' porn these days is between step relations, not blood relations.

Even though in New Jersey (USA) consensual incest between people 18 years old or older is not a criminal offense., and in Vermont (USA) consensual incest between people 16 years old or older is also not a criminal offense. Neither allows you to marry apparently, although I seem to remember people getting married in New Jersey. Maybe those are just spiritual wives though (see polygamy\Mormonism).

But that's a topic for another thread...

 

[Mwanted]

Note that, by that logic, no one could buy Game of Thrones DVDs with a Visa or Mastercard (Cercie and Jaime), or any movie that features rape (even if it's just R rated)... I'm sure others can cite numerous examples.

Regarding rape, here's a list of 15 fairly well known movies with rape in them:

You must be registered to see the links

Yeah, I guess the gal getting attacked by the trees in Evil Dead is actually a rape scene... this seems to happen in horror movies every now and then.
.

Movies, books, music, literature, games..you can find those themes in pretty much every form of art. So, yeah.. so much hypocrisy.
That said, I still would restrict at least a part of the most sensible themes.

 

[HiEv]

Note that, by that logic, no one could buy Game of Thrones DVDs with a Visa or Mastercard (Cercie and Jaime), or any movie that features rape (even if it's just R rated)... I'm sure others can cite numerous examples.

Regarding rape, here's a list of 15 fairly well known movies with rape in them:

You must be registered to see the links

Heck, the Bible has incest and rape, sometimes even combined, such as when Lot's daughters got him drunk to the point where he passed out so they could rape him and have his babies (

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).

We ought to report any place that sells such filth to Visa and MasterCard. (I'd love to hear them explain how it doesn't apply in this case.)

 

[Jag Hond]

(gamesglory wrote:
"Sponsorion Won't or can't allow content banned by Visa and Mastercard as there payment processing will get canceled and they will be blacklisted. NO EXCEPTIONS")

+1. True, unfortunately, and that above will always be THE point.

With best regards.

 

[OhWee]

So, rather than continue to speculate what Sponsorion may or may not allow, I went ahead and asked this on their blog:

What types of adult content will, and will not, be allowed on Sponsorion?

I guess we'll find out soon enough if they are ready to answer that.

 

[HiEv]

So, rather than continue to speculate what Sponsorion may or may not allow, I went ahead and asked this on their blog:

What types of adult content will, and will not, be allowed on Sponsorion?

You must be registered to see the links

ADULT CONTENT WE’RE NOT ALLOWING:

> We won’t be allowing real life porn. The legal overhead is far beyond the capabilities of a start-up. The crux of the matter is that the relevant US laws for real life porn are a great deal more restrictive than other fields, and don’t seem to separate platform provider and creator, at least not for crowdfunding purposes. We’d be under the same obligations as a porn studio, including the requirements for paperwork and ID verification. This would be on a site that has users all over the world! Also, a bit of an oddity for business law, messing up or even getting fooled by a fake ID (!!) could land us in prison. Literal prison. If you can’t 100% handle every file in triplicate (or operating out of a country with very loose laws) you shouldn’t even think of doing this. We can’t do that, so we can’t allow real life porn.

> We won’t be allowing Loli/Shota. L/S is treated differently from every other form of hentai under US law. Yes, we know it’s a grey area. But if you get dragged into court the case would be unwinnable – being in a grey area isn’t enough, when peddling something that unpopular you either need to be firmly in the right or have an arbitrarily large vault full of lawyers. US free speech protection is strong, and for basically everything *except* loli/shota being firmly in the right is exactly what we’d be. It’s also a legal lighting rod in a way no other fetish art is – it’s unlikely we’d end up in court in the first place over anything else.

> Do individuals get away with these things? Yes, they do. But.. if a spider crawls through a lion’s den, it does not mean a mouse can do the same. A big online platform cannot get away with things an individual creator can. If we are hugely successful, well, it’d be like a whole antelope trying to sneak through that den.

ADULT CONTENT WE ARE ALLOWING:

> Aside from the above, we plan on allowing fetish hentai content of all kinds. Yes, including stuff like vore / incest / etc. Depicting such things is legal under US law, and that’s the basis of what adult content we do and do not allow - “Is it legal?” and “Can we handle the regulatory overhead of allowing this?”.

 

[gamersglory]

real life porn not being allowed is not surprising all the regulatory shit here in the US for that is ridiculous. How they get around Mastercard Rules is another though once they launch and there site starts getting reviewed for BRAM compliance by Mastercard that will be the real test

 

[doublevr]

I'm a big fan of VR. Use to visit

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with all the links going to Patreon

 

[Yoshiiki]

Naah, real test will be actually gathering userbase. It's generally cute how website developers don't understand social behavior, they think making something that is better is enough (not always better technically, in this case it would be with less limitations). Top fans often consists of 2-18% of whole userbase, if creator moves to another platform, only that much will move over with additional margin for error. Rest really don't care that much and it's a pain in the ass for them to make another account for another thing. Anyone remembers google+? Or Youtube alternatives? Twitter alternatives? Facebook alternatives? Shit, majority of people that support adult games aren't even on this forum, some aren't even aware it exists.
And let's not forget, if such alternative turns out to be annoying for the Silicon Valley Oligarchy, it will be dealt with. Though, doubt methods of adult content support will fall under that, so it's at least this much.

Not saying don't do it, just have in mind reality and lower expectations to minimum to not get disappointed.

 

[uradamus]

@吉国大輝 - Most of what you said here is valid, but don't forget that Facebook is far from the original. It started as a new alternative to MySpace, which in turn was a new alternative to Friendster, heh. I'd even argue Twitter is basically an alternative to the niche that LiveJournal used to hold, just with a character limitation tossed on. I'd also say a lot of folks, myself included, are looking forward to YouTube eventually getting knocked down a couple of pegs by a newcomer at some point. Many have had similar sentiments about Patreon for a while now; so you never know what will eventually win out in the end or for how long.

 

[gamersglory]

I don't think Sponsorion is a threat to Patreon costs are about the same. The key is to bet patreons pricing modal and services. Our site will be pro-developer and cheaper than Patreon.

 

[Yoshiiki]

@uradamus True and I would agree that at one point in time, even the biggest ones will fall to the level of not being important. Problem is a scale and time. For myspace we counted userbase at best in millions, for FB it will be in billions. That's a huge difference, meaning users that go away aren't as hurtful (also, returning users and new users). Next part was the fact of myspace being a new product, while at this point in time, FB is an established product, which highly impacts new generation of users (decade is enough for 8yo to reach adulthood and users could easily be younger than 18yo).
I am not going to sink into data collection aspect and how important it is for... hmm... companies to keep such places as FB up. I would rather say that in terms of exposure and reach, FB has much more than myspace ever could dream of.
Now, the scale aside, we are having a time issue. It's more of a question of how many generations it will take for all current mainstream platforms to stop being relevant in place of new ones. What this means is... well, we are literally waiting for certain amount of time to pass so enough people die to cause a shift. A little bit grim, but that's how it is.
For ones television was a new thing, for next it was just there, but they had their own new thing (Internet) and that's pretty much how it goes when simplified without any additional elements. No point in complicating this right now.
However, time progression isn't the only cause, there are possible ways to shift userbase to a different product.
Considering tensions all around the world and US, if I were to take a wild guess, best one would be ideologically motivated (or politically if someone wants to call it that). Adding to that information spread due to Internet... yeah, sounds about right.
Now, back on patreon thingy. It is a very mainstream product, so it does have a highest reach right now, best bet for alternatives would be aiming at niche markets (payment issues aside) and grabbing interest of all such people. A little bit of black PR is always helpful for that, especially when offering "more than xxx". Safest bet is wanting to coexists, not destroy and waiting for a general fuckup from competitor. As with everything, it goes both ways. If you offer a product for something that is a niche and/or seen as disgusting, you could easily be painted in a very bad light by competition or society in general. Real skills come at this point, to take that bad light and turn it into a selling point, which isn't easy to pull off. If no skills are available, just ignore and don't engage.

 

[OhWee]

And so, the wait continues...

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posted this on their tumblr yesterday:

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​

​

Hey everyone,

We had noted previously that our aim to launch the beta during the last week of November was going to be tight, and that it might end up getting pushed back a few weeks. That scenario has occurred. At this point we’ve decided to give weekly updates with respect to the ongoing site development; we don’t think it will take much longer but we don’t want to overshoot any more launch dates.

If you have any questions or suggestions please feel free to send us an Ask or contact us at

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!

- The Sponsorion Team​

​

 

[Mwanted]

Nice. Once ready I'll erase every pledge I have on Patreon and tell the devs I'm gonna move to Sponsorion.
I wonder if Patreon will forbid the mere mention of Sponsorion, I wouldn't be surprised.
It would also be cool to spread the word as much as possible, here with a dedicated signature and elsewhere.

 

[Yoshiiki]

(...) I wonder if Patreon will forbid the mere mention of Sponsorion, I wouldn't be surprised.(...)

Highly doubt it, they probably aren't even taking it as serious competitor, maybe not even aware it exists. Not to say it's bad or not future platform, that's just the reality of things.