VN Ren'Py Abandoned The Intoxicating Flavor [v0.10.6] [PixelsLab]

[BlackJaller]

I lost my save for not creating a backup, will anyone have a save before the current patch?

 

[cxx]

I lost my save for not creating a backup, will anyone have a save before the current patch?

just restart.

 

[GingerbreadMan]

...
As it happens, I've been in a bad situation for the last year and a half, my Patreon support has more than halved, my debts are piling up, and it's getting harder and harder to pay for housing and medical procedures.
...

...
If there had been devoted work and development, I'm sure he wouldn't have had any money problems.
...

Just my two cents:

First, this is no question of missing devotion!

From what we could get from PixelsLab, he was devoted from the beginning, but bad english in the first chapters and the fact the story needed some time to get into held people back - but for he paid for translations (and was kind of scammed), fewer people supporting him meant that updates needed longer to be translated - a bad downwards spiral.

Besides that point, PixelsLab didn't hide from the very beginning that he had health and money issues.
Still, he kept coming through. Just the support never really picked up - like it does not for many good/promising VNs.

But as a developer, you can't keep going unaffected by that indefinitely.

Then at some point, because PixelsLab had problems (don't remember the specific reason), instead of just announcing the situation, he actively asked people over several posts to stop supporting him - and guess what - they did.

That falls pretty much together with a noticeable decline in Patreon support and later never really picked up again - also because of what I mentioned before.

Then later PixelsLab announced there were problems with getting money out of Patreon because of him being from Russia. In that vein, he also asked people to either stop their support or use other means like his SubscribeStar account. But that one kept us waiting to be fully set up. So not only were people removing their Patreon support, but they also weren't able to shift it somewhere else instead in case they wanted.
This is also an important point - not everyone has those other accounts or wants to use them - just like other people won't touch Patreon for various reasons.

So while it is understandable, that a situation where no money comes in is not sustainable for a longer time period - just lamenting over it is a bit too easy here - the current situation was also in part set up by PixelsLab himself by actively making people withdraw their support.

For now, I'm keeping my support up - and PixelsLab - If you don't categorically intend to stop working on this VN altogether after finding a job to give you some more stability - don't make the same mistake again.
Asking people to not support you or closing possibilities for them to do so will result in less support without question.
Just state the situation and don't overshare by making such decisions for your supporters unless that outcome is what you are aiming for.

There are enough examples of developers that have a quite slow update schedule and still getting some support from people who like their work though. Sometimes even stating it's just a relaxing hobby and if they get 50$ a month it's a bonus/sign of appreciation for them, but not what keeps them going.

So if it doesn't cost you to keep your SubscribeStar/Patreon account open and your update schedule would just be reduced to once half a year for example - just ignore people asking for a quick sex scene or lamenting about you not pumping image numbers out like a 10 person team, and let people decide on their own what support your slowed schedule is worth to them.

It will decline, but getting 200$ a month instead of 700$ and still working on the VN as you are capable and willing to besides a day job might still be better than just abandoning what you invested all that work, money, and health into over the last years.

If it has become just stress for you though and only gives you bad memories - then as much as it would pain me to not get to the end of the story - close everything but do it in a way that no one is uncertain if there was a chance left you came back - don't do it in stages, where you first tell us you can't work on it as much, actively ask us to reduce our support (and offensively stating you understand us reducing our support, ultimately is that as well) and then close everything up later because of your declined support ...

After all that: Regardless of what you decide PixelsLab, thanks for your work and dedication to see this through until now.
While it was a rocky start for me as well - I really enjoyed the story so far.
I wish you all the best going forward!

 

[snake_27]

Oh, what bad news... I left the game at v0.8 and let it build a little more and now that I was rereading from the beginning I see this news I completely understand the dev, I hope it gets approved by Steam as this game is not sooo focused in pron as others... In any case, I will wait for the final decision before I continue.

Cheers!

 

[boulimanus]

This was always a special one and bit of a niche game.

I don't think the dev actually pushed people out. I commend their openness actually and being clear that it was okay to not support if you don't like this or that. This is a very positive attitude and a dedication to their story.
I've seen other dev being very vicious and using coercive tricks to guilt trip people or build themselves an army that fortifies their little corner of a forum.
And of course we've seen plenty more games that succumb to public demands, derail their creative process and get abandoned.

I do hope it can complete, but I think so far the dev has been rather exemplary.
If it ends here, I wish them the best for the future.

 

[GingerbreadMan]

This was always a special one and bit of a niche game.

I don't think the dev actually pushed people out. I commend their openness actually and being clear that it was okay to not support if you don't like this or that. This is a very positive attitude and a dedication to their story.
I've seen other dev being very vicious and using coercive tricks to guilt trip people or build themselves an army that fortifies their little corner of a forum.
And of course we've seen plenty more games that succumb to public demands, derail their creative process and get abandoned.

I do hope it can complete, but I think so far the dev has been rather exemplary.
If it ends here, I wish them the best for the future.

I'm with you that it is great to be open about the situation the dev is in and what problems are coming up - we as potential supporters should be kept in the loop to be able to make an informed decision.

But the time I mentioned, PxelsLab actively/strongly asked us to just remove our support over a handful of long posts.

He could have just paused his Patreon or we could have decided that with all these issues and uncertain future, we wanted to reduce or remove our support.

But if someone tells you 'just remove your support - no really, take your money where it is better put to use. I mean it, don't give me money, I don't want your support right now!' - that is more than not being vicious and openly communicating.

And people that take their money somewhere else - have that money put somewhere else - getting the support back is hard work comparatively because your previous supporters most likely didn't just let it rest unused.
So getting their support back will often mean they have to either up their support, or actively decide to reduce the support they put the money to in the meantime.

He also mentioned several times, that despite his health and money issues, being out of work, and accumulating debt, less support only meant slower development. Not the end of this VN.

So people that were on the fence and not deeply involved with the VN didn't really have an incentive to give a little support, because PixelsLab stated several times, that support was about development speed, not about him potentially stopping it.

In my job, I had to learn that when writing emails to third-party companies, especially those that we paid money to for doing something - only tell them what our issue is - and let them come up with a solution.
When they ask me stuff or want to discuss things, great, I can provide more info or thoughts - but if I tell them too much about what I think might be a solution to my issue right away, they will tend to grab onto that instead of openly looking at it themselves.
And if my proposed solution was favoring them instead of us compared to another solution I didn't think of or couldn't have thought of because I didn't know their internal stuff - why would they even look any further even if the solution wasn't the best?

Therefore - be open and keep people in the loop - but don't make a responsive decision for them by rubbing it into their faces or removing alternatives, unless that is your desired outcome.
If it is not, but people take your suggestion to heart, you can't complain about it later.

If you ask people to stop supporting you, especially when the growth of your support was on the slow side, to begin with, you can't later complain about your situation being difficult because your support dropped and didn't grow back magically fast later.

 

[anne O'nymous]

[sorry to quote you while in fact not talking to you, it's for the context]

For now, I'm keeping my support up - and PixelsLab - If you don't categorically intend to stop working on this VN altogether after finding a job to give you some more stability - don't make the same mistake again.
Asking people to not support you or closing possibilities for them to do so will result in less support without question.

PixelsLab :
I don't know for subscribestar, but Patreon permit you, as creator, to froze the pledges. I get that telling people to stop supporting you come from pure honesty ; you're not sure that you can continue to do it, and don't want to act as a scammer.
But next time, just froze the pledges, explaining to your patrons why you're doing it. It will not directly solve the money issue, but you'll loose less support, can possibly even gain some due to that honesty, and you get back to the previous situation when you unfroze the pledges. Therefore it's a win-win situation for both you and your patrons.


But well, initially I didn't came to talk about this, but to say that the reworked story is even more deep and amazing that it was before. You're doing a really good job and I really wish that you'll be able to continue being our storyteller, whatever how many time you need between two updates. When a story is as good as this one, people are ready to wait as long as it take.

 

[Before I Forget]

Just my two cents:

First, this is no question of missing devotion!

From what we could get from PixelsLab, he was devoted from the beginning, but bad english in the first chapters and the fact the story needed some time to get into held people back - but for he paid for translations (and was kind of scammed), fewer people supporting him meant that updates needed longer to be translated - a bad downwards spiral.

Besides that point, PixelsLab didn't hide from the very beginning that he had health and money issues.
Still, he kept coming through. Just the support never really picked up - like it does not for many good/promising VNs.

But as a developer, you can't keep going unaffected by that indefinitely.

Then at some point, because PixelsLab had problems (don't remember the specific reason), instead of just announcing the situation, he actively asked people over several posts to stop supporting him - and guess what - they did.

That falls pretty much together with a noticeable decline in Patreon support and later never really picked up again - also because of what I mentioned before.

Then later PixelsLab announced there were problems with getting money out of Patreon because of him being from Russia. In that vein, he also asked people to either stop their support or use other means like his SubscribeStar account. But that one kept us waiting to be fully set up. So not only were people removing their Patreon support, but they also weren't able to shift it somewhere else instead in case they wanted.
This is also an important point - not everyone has those other accounts or wants to use them - just like other people won't touch Patreon for various reasons.

So while it is understandable, that a situation where no money comes in is not sustainable for a longer time period - just lamenting over it is a bit too easy here - the current situation was also in part set up by PixelsLab himself by actively making people withdraw their support.

For now, I'm keeping my support up - and PixelsLab - If you don't categorically intend to stop working on this VN altogether after finding a job to give you some more stability - don't make the same mistake again.
Asking people to not support you or closing possibilities for them to do so will result in less support without question.
Just state the situation and don't overshare by making such decisions for your supporters unless that outcome is what you are aiming for.

There are enough examples of developers that have a quite slow update schedule and still getting some support from people who like their work though. Sometimes even stating it's just a relaxing hobby and if they get 50$ a month it's a bonus/sign of appreciation for them, but not what keeps them going.

So if it doesn't cost you to keep your SubscribeStar/Patreon account open and your update schedule would just be reduced to once half a year for example - just ignore people asking for a quick sex scene or lamenting about you not pumping image numbers out like a 10 person team, and let people decide on their own what support your slowed schedule is worth to them.

It will decline, but getting 200$ a month instead of 700$ and still working on the VN as you are capable and willing to besides a day job might still be better than just abandoning what you invested all that work, money, and health into over the last years.

If it has become just stress for you though and only gives you bad memories - then as much as it would pain me to not get to the end of the story - close everything but do it in a way that no one is uncertain if there was a chance left you came back - don't do it in stages, where you first tell us you can't work on it as much, actively ask us to reduce our support (and offensively stating you understand us reducing our support, ultimately is that as well) and then close everything up later because of your declined support ...

After all that: Regardless of what you decide PixelsLab, thanks for your work and dedication to see this through until now.
While it was a rocky start for me as well - I really enjoyed the story so far.
I wish you all the best going forward!

Well said.

 

[Master of Puppets]

PixelsLab
Reactions to 0.10.5:

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[PixelsLab]

GingerbreadMan boulimanus
Thanks for the words of encouragement. It's nice to read the thoughts of people who know the history of how the game was created.
Many people don't remember that the first two years I worked for free, and the third year I was saving up for a new computer, which I bought to make the game. And that's the most important time, when you're burning with the game. And after that, fatigue set in. Plus huge health problems for the rest of my life because I worked full time in an office for three years and then came home and worked 5-6 hours in the evening.
But I also agree that the low support is entirely my fault. I made VERY many mistakes. But I will write all this in a separate post soon.
anne O'nymous
For me, freezing the pledges doesn't work. When I froze my page for three months in February 2022, I lost 45% of my support. For some reason, if I don't put out some sort of update at least once a month, 20% unsubscribe from me every month. This has always been the case.

 

[MAGO-DAG]

What a cool and high quality game! I downloaded it yesterday and am playing with pleasure, it’s amazing how high quality the animation looks, Dev, as I understand from Russia? very good work! I hope you are doing well and keep working on the game and good luck! PixelsLab

 

[Keerthi Thorpe]

GingerbreadMan boulimanus
Thanks for the words of encouragement. It's nice to read the thoughts of people who know the history of how the game was created.
Many people don't remember that the first two years I worked for free, and the third year I was saving up for a new computer, which I bought to make the game. And that's the most important time, when you're burning with the game. And after that, fatigue set in. Plus huge health problems for the rest of my life because I worked full time in an office for three years and then came home and worked 5-6 hours in the evening.
But I also agree that the low support is entirely my fault. I made VERY many mistakes. But I will write all this in a separate post soon.
anne O'nymous
For me, freezing the pledges doesn't work. When I froze my page for three months in February 2022, I lost 45% of my support. For some reason, if I don't put out some sort of update at least once a month, 20% unsubscribe from me every month. This has always been the case.

Hi PixelsLab,
I just read your comment and signed up for Level1 supporter on Patreon.
It's not much, but I can wait months, years for a new update without missing the money.
So don't stress about it.

I really appreciate your game and hope that as far as your health allows it, you will continue its development.

 

[cxx]

still nice game and lil sis flashback was nice and told told that mc's mommy is bitch (not that new thing) and her father was (/is?) asshole.

 

[PixelsLab]

Hi PixelsLab,
I just read your comment and signed up for Level1 supporter on Patreon.
It's not much, but I can wait months, years for a new update without missing the money.
So don't stress about it.

I really appreciate your game and hope that as far as your health allows it, you will continue its development.

Friend, that's a lot. I know how hard money is earned. And I am glad of any support, even just a kind word. Thank you very much!

 

[PixelsLab]

You must be registered to see the links

Hey, everyone.

I won't take too long. I got a rejection from Steam.

I knew from the very beginning that it would be like this. It was pretty obvious that Steam wouldn't like Alice, and they decided to reinsure themselves. It's still very frustrating though.

The reply from Steam came over a week ago, and all this time I've been trying to finally decide what to do next.

I've already mentioned my situation in the last post, now I'll try to explain it in more detail, telling you what happened to me for the last year and a half. But before I do that, I'll make it clear that I'm not writing this to make you feel sorry for me, but to explain why I have to close the game.

About the finances.

After I took a break last February and froze the page for 3 months to regain some health and nerves, I lost about 45% of my support. That's when I decided not to complain about life, and just keep doing what I can to keep the game alive. That's why I hardly wrote any personal posts like I used to do. And every month after that, the support on Patreon dropped harder and harder. I had small savings, and I could live on them. But gradually they started to run out too.

Then, in November 2022, Payoneer, the payment system I used to withdraw funds from Patreon, announced that it was closing all accounts for Russians. And I then asked those of you who had the opportunity to subscribe for a year, so that I could have at least some reserves. And a lot of people responded. Thank you very much again! I then raised $2,489, which I stretched over the course of 6 months. Obviously, I wasn't doing so well, so I started borrowing from people I knew and doing part-time work to keep afloat somehow.

In June, I traveled to another country to open an account there and withdraw my Patreon savings. I had to travel three times before I could receive them. As you can imagine, traveling to another country is not cheap, and to save money, I decided to take the bus. And that turned out to be a big problem because of my back. 17 hours straight one way on a bus with a sore spine is hell. It's been five months and I still haven't recovered from those trips. I withdrew $3,287 dollars from Patreon back then - that's what I had accumulated in a little over 6 months. Which would have been a good amount, but I was already in quite a bit of debt at the time, and I gave away most of that money almost immediately. And don't forget that to get that money, I had to travel to another country 3 times, pay for the trips themselves and the hotel. Now I have 2900 dollars saved up on Patreon again, which will barely cover my current debts accumulated over the last 5 months.

I realize a lot of you math doesn't add up, but this weird stuff from Patreon. Right now it says on the home page that I have $739 in support, but I'm very lucky if I raise that amount. More often than not, I raise $100 less. I never figured out how this counter works in so many years.

Anyway, that's all I wanted to say about finances. Once again, I'll make it clear that this is not an attempt to make you feel sorry for me, I'm just trying to tell you about my situation in life. If you felt sorry for me and decided to support me after this, you should be very wrong. I'm just a guy on the internet, and my situation is far from the worst. There are millions of people in the world with much worse problems, help them better. Also, don't forget that the holidays are coming up and you'll need to buy gifts for your loved ones. And I'll pay off my debts myself, since I've already found a job. But I am still very grateful to you for helping me for so long!

About health.

In fact, that's the main reason I gave up. Because I feel worse and worse.

As I've shared before, I took a break for three months in February 2022. And it really helped me! I felt normal for over a year, hardly ever thinking about my back. But after the 3 trips mentioned, it got worse than ever. Especially after the last one, when the bus got stuck at the border and instead of 17 hours, I sat on the bus for 28. That totally messed me up, and I still haven't recovered even though it's been over 5 months.

In September I had a very severe attack and for 2 weeks I basically couldn't work, couldn't sit, lie down or stand normally. I was in a lot of pain and no painkillers helped. That being said, I went to doctors, got massages, had a bunch of shots and lay under IVs with painkillers. It was because of this that I was not able to get the October update out in time. And now every day I'm afraid that I can break down again and go down for a couple more weeks, or possibly forever.

It was after the October update that I decided to close the game. I realized that with my health, I wouldn't be able to release even short updates every month. And if I don't release updates every month, support goes down a lot.

About motivation.

As you realize, it's hard to develop a game with these inputs. It's hard to come up with dialogs, jokes and other things when you're struggling with your own health and financial problems. And the motivation is getting weaker and weaker every day.

Also, of course, it's frustrating when you look at some new game that in the first 2 months gathers as much support as I've been gathering for 3-4 years. That's a lot of pressure. And I can't even understand why it's not like that for me. I mean, I really tried. I tried on every word, render, animation and everything, everything, everything. Is it just luck? Or is my game that much worse? I know it sounds pathetic, but it still hurts.

About Steam.

I'd like to add a few words about Steam. I've already said I was sure about the rejection, but some developers I knew and just friends urged me to try releasing the game there, as it could bring in enough for me to finish the game without worrying about money. That was one of the reasons why I started reworking the first chapters. But unfortunately, what happened is what happened. It's hard to blame Steam, since the fact that it releases adult games at all is already surprising. But it's so fucking frustrating!

Actually, the most annoying thing about this whole situation, in my opinion, is that the game has enough content for a fully finished game. About 200,000 words! That's more than in two full-fledged novels. Over 6 thousand images! Most of which are well done. Cool animations. Yes there aren't many, but they're good. So good, in fact, that several developers have offered to let me do animations for their games for money.

Now that I think about it, I'm really surprised at what a gigantic job I did. And how frustrated I am that I never got around to finishing it....

Oh, okay. Stop feeling sorry for myself, I already look like a whiner after this post. Let's summarize.

Bottom line.

I have neither the health nor the financial ability to continue The Intoxicating Flavor. Therefore, I am permanently closing the game.

I am very sorry. I apologize to you for not being able to bring the story to the promised end.

I have already taken an official job. I contacted a former boss of mine who we worked well with for many years, and he offered me a position with him. It seems to pay a good salary. Now I need to work at least six months to get back on my feet, pay off my debts and make at least some savings. But what will I do after that?

I really want to keep making games. I think I have pretty good skills for that right now. At least I have a good renderer, and the animations are getting better and better every time. I'm not so sure about my skills as a screenwriter anymore though. TIF was too unpopular... But, I still have hope to make an interesting game.

I originally wanted to remove the pages on Patreon, Boosty, Subscribestar and all social media related to the game, as well as the Discord server. To completely disappear as PixelsLab. After all, even if I decide to create a new game, I'll still have the shadow of an unfinished project on me. But on the other hand, I've heard so many words of support in the last two weeks that I just don't want to part with you. Besides, many of you have become, if not friends, then at least good acquaintances whose opinions are interesting to listen to.

So there's no way I can decide how I should proceed. I'm still leaning towards closing the page, since even if I start a new project, it will be very different from TIF. But for now, I've decided to freeze the page until the new year so Patreon doesn't charge you, and closer to the end of December I'll either extend the freeze or delete the page for good.

Unfortunately, there is no way to freeze the page on Boosty and Subscribestar. So you'll have to unsubscribe on your own. Anyway, at the end of December I will remove the support levels on these sites so that those who forget to unsubscribe will not be charged.

Also on Patreon you can request a refund for the last month. If that doesn't work, write me and I'll try to do it on my end.
And I want to apologize to you again. I'm very sorry for letting you down like that. And thank you more for being with me these years! You gave me a chance to do something new and unusual for myself! I wish I could have taken that chance to the fullest.
P.S. Would you like to discuss the reason why TIF never became popular? I'd really like to hear your opinion. I wanted to write a separate post about it myself, but more than anything I want to hear an outside opinion. I'm very interested.

 

[squares]

Hey, PixelsLab.

I am sorry to hear about this whole situation. Your game was one of the 1st 3D CG VNs that I enjoyed. I remember looking at the screenshots of such VNs thinking "those silicon looking characters are weird and story cant be good, no way". Then out of boredom I tried some of those games including TIF and I am so glad I did. It got me into this whole new world of fantastic stories and your story is one of my favorites. I honestly don't know why your game is not near the top of this site ratings, it has engaging story, good pacing and the renders are beatifull. The characters are well written and each one of them has unique and believable personality. It has good humor, enough romance and mystery. I don't know what went wrong or how to properly describe my feelings toward TIF in English, да и на родном не смогу выразить те чувства, которые я испытывал при прочтении... It is sad to know, that I will never see the closure, but I understand your reasoning.

Желаю тебе успехов на работе, а так же надеюсь, что ты поправишься. Береги себя и спасибо за это прекрасное приключение.

 

[neskartu]

Hey PixelsLab,

that's really sad to read. i really like the game, the characters and the story. it's one of my favorites here. i will miss Katie and Alice. but i understand you very well.

i wish you all the best and maybe there will be a chance to develop the game further one day!

 

[cxx]

I knew from the very beginning that it would be like this. It was pretty obvious that Steam wouldn't like Alice, and they decided to reinsure themselves.

yea she just looks too young but making her older (taller) since start wouldn't fit story w/o big changes.

 

[Deleted member 6676619]

P.S. Would you like to discuss the reason why TIF never became popular? I'd really like to hear your opinion. I wanted to write a separate post about it myself, but more than anything I want to hear an outside opinion. I'm very interested.

A separate story about Eve's origin, the people of the Island, and maybe Innana's history.

Besides your health and financial challenges (both beyond your control), I think perhaps TIF's growth was held back by a lack of marketing. It's a great story, the characters are strong, and the models are beautiful.

Don't give up on this "world" you have created. It is excellent for telling so many stories within. And certainly, some of those side stories might be enough to launch a game on Steam. As we say in English, "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater". Just because Steam didn't like TIF, doesn't mean it won't love several of your other stories in this world and with those characters.

 

[klykcton]

hi PixelsLab

I want to say thanks you for all your time and health you give us for the game i hope you get well soon.
For steam the lost something who can bring more users and maybe someone is going contact you for retake the intoxicating flavor and continue the game.

INNANA BLESS U WITH HEALTH AND POWER