What do you like/hate when playing sandbox games?

[point.dot]

I am creating a sandbox game and wanted to ask you what you like/hate most about this kind of game.
Corruption? Good H content? no time waste?
Would be great to hear your input.

 

[osanaiko]

Specifically about Sandbox:

Good things:
- when done well, moving around a map can help the feeling of immersion. That is, you as the player feel like you are really making the decision about movements and actions of the MC, discovering information and locations from your own choices

- some small amount of "effort" (minor grind) by the player can increase the feeling of reward when you do unlock next adult content

Bad things:
- unless carefully designed, a sandbox can easily become a "15 clicks to get to next location" grindfest that is a chore to play. Ideally, the "distance" (number of UI interactions) needed to get to the common locations should be minimised.

- You MUST put extra effort in the game design and hinting system, otherwise it can turn into a confusing "where do i go next" situation. Very important to put yourself in a "player who knows nothing yet" mindset and look at your game - there should be obvious hints how to progress (or sometimes less obvious if you are making a puzzle/mystery, but ALWAYS there must be some way for a player to logically discover how to progress)

- The worst possibility: the player will feel like they must check every location repeatedly just in case the next step forward has appeared somewhere. But then the SHITTY game design actually has some secret / hidden logic to unlock the next step (e.g. grind a stat to some arbitrary higher lvel, or wait for a timer/time of day, or even random chance!!). This is the MOST ANNOYING part of too many sandboxes.


The other things you mentioned:

" Corruption? Good H content? no time waste? "

These are unrelated to whether the game is sandbox style or not. And yes, all three of those things are 100% a good thing for any adult game design IMHO.

 

[milfluv69]

Two things I hate in sandbox games are locking progression for one character behind progression with another and forcing the player to repeat actions to progress for no reason other than to make the game seem bigger than it is

 

[metalblinga]

Specifically about Sandbox:

Good things:
- when done well, moving around a map can help the feeling of immersion. That is, you as the player feel like you are really making the decision about movements and actions of the MC, discovering information and locations from your own choices

- some small amount of "effort" (minor grind) by the player can increase the feeling of reward when you do unlock next adult content

Bad things:
- unless carefully designed, a sandbox can easily become a "15 clicks to get to next location" grindfest that is a chore to play. Ideally, the "distance" (number of UI interactions) needed to get to the common locations should be minimised.

- You MUST put extra effort in the game design and hinting system, otherwise it can turn into a confusing "where do i go next" situation. Very important to put yourself in a "player who knows nothing yet" mindset and look at your game - there should be obvious hints how to progress (or sometimes less obvious if you are making a puzzle/mystery, but ALWAYS there must be some way for a player to logically discover how to progress)

- The worst possibility: the player will feel like they must check every location repeatedly just in case the next step forward has appeared somewhere. But then the SHITTY game design actually has some secret / hidden logic to unlock the next step (e.g. grind a stat to some arbitrary higher lvel, or wait for a timer/time of day, or even random chance!!). This is the MOST ANNOYING part of too many sandboxes.


The other things you mentioned:

" Corruption? Good H content? no time waste? "

These are unrelated to whether the game is sandbox style or not. And yes, all three of those things are 100% a good thing for any adult game design IMHO.

This.

I personally prefer good sandbox games to the traditional click-next-finish renpy visual novels.

Back before I became a dev, I played several sandbox games and I remember being completely pissed off at not knowing where to go next or if there was any more content left to see in the game.
So when I made my game, I took all the best elements from my favorite sandbox games and improved on them. And I'm proud to say that I've never once gotten the complaints that most sandbox games get.

If a player doesn't need a walkthrough to play your game to completion, then you've succeeded in my book.

 

[GNVE]

The number 1 question should always be: "What does a sandbox add to the game?" There are so many games out there where you have a linear game with extra clicks. Sometimes literally. I'd say about 90% of the games that have a sandbox would have been better without it.
A sandbox could be a good thing but you need a reason for it to be there. For instance if you have management mechanics (HHS+ and Harem Hotel are better known ones) it makes more sense to add a sandbox. Although the question could be asked if the management mechanics add something or not.
Basically you need to ask why do I want to add a game mechanic rather then what game mechanics can I add. Game mechanics are not good or bad. They are just well implemented or not.

As osanaiko said above the number of clicks to go from thing to do 1 to thing to do 2 should be minimal. I think that in UX design they talk about 3 clicks? It's not a hard rule but think about it. let's say your game needs me to go to the gym 10 times:
game one: open map, click gym, click equipment. that's 30 clicks
game two: exit room, go downstairs, out the front door, go to main street, enter gym, go through locker room, enter equipment room, click equipment. that's 80 clicks.
Multiply that by a dozen events or so and your looking at hundreds of clicks difference. Over the course of a large game thousands. What do you think plays better and is more well liked?

But also consider mouse travel time. In your typical Ren'py game you may click hundreds or thousands of times to get through the story, yet nobody cares. Why? because you can click anywhere on the screen. So in some cases adding an extra click to reduce travel time of the mouse might be better. (This also means having icons that are easy to click rather then fiddly ones that only work half the time).

As osanaiko stated a good hint system is paramount to make sure the player finds your content. I also want to ask you to think about what locations need to be added. What does a location add to the sandbox. Will it be pivotable to the plot or used once and never after.
If a player gets lost on their way to the next piece of content they might start clicking random locations to find that content. if you have 20 screens that have never been used it means they need to go through all those extra clicks without finding any content ever.

Unlike milfluv69 I'm not wholly against having one characters progression locked behind another characters. It needs to be used sparingly though. If every progression is locked behind some other progression you are back to a linear game again. It is also a problem when players dislike character A but have to grind them to get back into the story with character B & C whom they do like.

If a player doesn't need a walkthrough to play your game to completion, then you've succeeded in my book.

Couldn't have said it better myself. This however also applies to linear games. Nothing is worse than getting a screen with "This content is locked because you didn't click what I wanted you to click over the last x amount of time..." I remember once playing a game where I thought I was out of content because I hadn't figured out I needed to do something 5 times at a specific time in a specific order. There was a whole game after that event I got stuck on (this was a sandbox though...)

I am creating a sandbox game and wanted to ask you what you like/hate most about this kind of game.
Corruption? Good H content? no time waste?
Would be great to hear your input.

I hope now that you see where your question misses the point. Corruption is a theme but that does not make it a good or bad fit for a sandbox. H-content is important regardless of linearity of the game.

So to summarize your question should not be "What do you like in a sandbox game." but "Does my game make sense as a sandbox."

 

[anne O'nymous]

The number 1 question should always be: "What does a sandbox add to the game?" There are so many games out there where you have a linear game with extra clicks. Sometimes literally. I'd say about 90% of the games that have a sandbox would have been better without it.

This !

It's like the scene when you ask a girl about herself, and you can't continue until you chosen all the options in the menu: Totally useless.

Each element of the game play should add something to the game ; something more than a false feeling of control over the story. And it also apply to the free roaming/sandbox mechanism. It should be linked to a real choice, and not just occupy the player between two scenes by making him pass from one mandatory location to another mandatory location.

A sandbox could be a good thing but you need a reason for it to be there. For instance if you have management mechanics (HHS+ and Harem Hotel are better known ones) it makes more sense to add a sandbox. Although the question could be asked if the management mechanics add something or not.

Can it be really named "management" for Harem Hotel ?
But, anyway it's a good example, because the player can choose what he will do next, with what girl he will interact, while still not missing some content because of this choice. What he haven't seen will be waiting waiting for him. A step further there's also Super Powered, a bit too much on the grind side, but the player can fully choose what he'll do next.

As osanaiko said above the number of clicks to go from thing to do 1 to thing to do 2 should be minimal. I think that in UX design they talk about 3 clicks? It's not a hard rule but think about it.

Yes, an action shouldn't be more than three clicks away.
In terms of usual free roaming mechanism, it mean that the "exist this building/house" button should always be available, making you reach the map with one click. Then from the map you chose your destination building/house. And once there, you chose the room you want to visit.
Eventually you can have different floors if the building/house is big, but all rooms at the given floor must be available directly.

What is to avoid is the games that make you travel from corridor to corridor, and possibly also room to room, mimicking the travel you would do in real life. It feel immersive the two-three first times, but quickly become a burden.

let's say your game needs me to go to the gym 10 times:
game one: open map, click gym, click equipment. that's 30 clicks
game two: exit room, go downstairs, out the front door, go to main street, enter gym, go through locker room, enter equipment room, click equipment. that's 80 clicks.

Ideally, the most relevant location(s) at that instant in the game should always be available directly ; at least when in the right building/house.

It's the morning, it's time to works.
The UI should have the usual "go to the map" button, and next to it a "go to works button" that would make you jump directly to your desk. The player still have the possibility to pass through the map and buy a coffee before going to works, but if he don't want to do this, he can go directly where he's supposed to go.
And in top of that, for players who bought a coffee, when entering the building where he works, his desk should be available even if it's not on the same floor. Once again, it let him the possibility to flirt with the girl at the entrance, while also offering him the possibility to go directly where he should be if he don't want to flirt or once he made his tour.

But as I said, it's ideally, because the UI don't always permit this.

As osanaiko stated a good hint system is paramount to make sure the player finds your content.

And for this, the best way to do is to show what character is at what location ; generally by adding a profile picture hover the location button.
A basic highlight of the location could be disappointing, because there's content, but with a girl that don't interest the player. This while the profile picture permit to always go where there's something that will be interesting.

I also want to ask you to think about what locations need to be added. What does a location add to the sandbox. Will it be pivotable to the plot or used once and never after.

If the toilets are used for some quickies at works, and only for that, there's two possibilities.
Either it appear on the interface only when the girl agree for a quickie "later", then the player will click on it when he's ready for that scene, and the button will disappear once the scene end. Or the quickie will happen "now", and the player will be teleported to the right location ; players are smart enough to understand that the "five minute delay" the girl asked for passed.
But at no time the room should be available all the time, because there's absolutely nothing else to do there. If there's the possibility to catch a girl and directly ask for a quickie, or to spy on a girl if there's watersport, the button can be relevant. But if it's just a narrative location, it isn't.

All this also imply that, if you release your game in update, the locations should only appear when there's finally content for them. There's no need for a "boss office" location if the boss will only be introduced three updates later. At most you add the location button because you want to show that there will be more place to go in the future, but you keep it greyed, and so no clickable, until the moment it start to have some content.
Thinking about it, this also apply if you release the game already finished. There's no need for the "boss office" location if the said boss will only appear after three in-game weeks.
And, by extension, if one co-worker take a one week holiday, her desk shouldn't be available during that week ; unless the player can search her place or prank her.

If a player gets lost on their way to the next piece of content they might start clicking random locations to find that content. if you have 20 screens that have never been used it means they need to go through all those extra clicks without finding any content ever.

Then, after some time playing, he will feel that the game is mostly empty, because a too big part of his time is wasted entering empty rooms. And it happen that people don't play empty games.

Unlike milfluv69 I'm not wholly against having one characters progression locked behind another characters. It needs to be used sparingly though. If every progression is locked behind some other progression you are back to a linear game again. It is also a problem when players dislike character A but have to grind them to get back into the story with character B & C whom they do like.

Totally agree.

Having to wait for the mother to have an opened mind before you starts to fuck your sister in the living room, what is a mandatory step to progress with her, yes, why not. Yet, to the condition that opening the mother's mind do not imply being involved with her, because the player can not like her.
But having to systematically wait that the mother is a bit more opened to weirdness before you can pass to the next step with the sister, it's a big no.

The lock must be relevant to the story. It is in my good example, because a morally strict mother wouldn't agree for her children to have sex together. It isn't in the bad example, because most of the time she'll not know what is happening being her back.

Couldn't have said it better myself. This however also applies to linear games. Nothing is worse than getting a screen with "This content is locked because you didn't click what I wanted you to click over the last x amount of time..."

I'm less categorical on this. But only if what the player haven't done was obviously a blocking point.
Let's say that the player go to a sex shop, and his offer the possibility to buy a butt plug. If the choice offered looks like, "hey, perhaps should I also buy a butt plug, who know, thought it I can open her up to anal sex", then that not buying the butt plug block all future anal content feel legit. Even it the said anal content only happen later.
Yet, ideally the player should have the possibility to change his mind. What mean that instead of, "you can't see that content", there should be a, "perhaps is it time to buy that butt plug". If after two-three time, the player still don't have the butt plug, then the block is definitive.
He was offered three-four opportunity to buy the butt plug, not doing it mean that he don't want to see anal content ; but only anal content, it shouldn't block the progression of her corruption, just exclude anal from it.

I remember once playing a game where I thought I was out of content because I hadn't figured out I needed to do something 5 times at a specific time in a specific order. There was a whole game after that event I got stuck on (this was a sandbox though...)

Happened to me to. There were two girls in the game with which I interacted often, but never in a sexual way because I haven't gone to a party that was presented as a boring thing the MC don't want to go. It happen that it was so boring that the girls and the MC will leave, do something totally different and become a bit closer ; mandatory step to start pursuing them.
I discovered it one updates before the end, because of a bug that made one of the girls talk about a crazy sex scene between her and the MC.

So to summarize your question should not be "What do you like in a sandbox game." but "Does my game make sense as a sandbox."

I would more goes with: Does sandbox make sense with my story and the way I want to tell it ?

 

[GNVE]

Can it be really named "management" for Harem Hotel ?
But, anyway it's a good example, because the player can choose what he will do next, with what girl he will interact, while still not missing some content because of this choice. What he haven't seen will be waiting waiting for him. A step further there's also Super Powered, a bit too much on the grind side, but the player can fully choose what he'll do next.

I agree it's a bit tenuous at best but then again with the bar nearly on the floor a lot of things qualify... Management is a tag that rarely delivers its promise.

 

[point.dot]

Thank you guys so much for your incredibly valuable input, it made me aware of some points that I would have 100% overlooked otherwise.
I've been working on my game for over 10 months and after a while you get tunnel vision and miss some important parts.
Regarding the points mentioned:

A sandbox could be a good thing but you need a reason for it to be there. For instance if you have management mechanics (HHS+ and Harem Hotel are better known ones) it makes more sense to add a sandbox. Although the question could be asked if the management mechanics add something or not.

BIG point right here.
My primary goal is to make a fun game with interesting characters and add H-content as a “bonus” (meaning I don't want H-content to be all there is).
I don't want my sandbox to be just a sandbox by name.

Yes, an action shouldn't be more than three clicks away.
In terms of usual free roaming mechanism, it mean that the "exist this building/house" button should always be available, making you reach the map with one click. Then from the map you chose your destination building/house. And once there, you chose the room you want to visit.
Eventually you can have different floors if the building/house is big, but all rooms at the given floor must be available directly.

I want to value the player's time and not create a click simulator XD, so the goal will be to reach everything in 3 clicks.

Map size has been mentioned several times and I agree that a large/too large map just makes the game feel empty. Right now my game has a total of 6 screens/rooms, not a lot, but I want to breathe some life into them before I add more.

As @osanaiko stated a good hint system is paramount to make sure the player finds your content.

As for the “hint system”, I'm not sure whats the best way to implement it. I don't want the player to feel like they're working off a list, ideally the game is so well designed that it just “works” so to speak, but that's definitely easier said than done XD so I'll explore my options. (A lot of games have quest trackers/lists, so I think it's ok)


And the last point I have seen and 1000% agree with is locking content based on your previous actions/choices and that will be a big NONO. I don't want to hinder the players fun and locking him out from choices would do so in my opinion.

Thanks for your input guys! I am working on a tech test for my game and hope you guys will like it.

 

[GNVE]

As for the “hint system”, I'm not sure whats the best way to implement it. I don't want the player to feel like they're working off a list, ideally the game is so well designed that it just “works” so to speak, but that's definitely easier said than done XD so I'll explore my options. (A lot of games have quest trackers/lists, so I think it's ok)

I agree that it would be best if it is designed well so it just works. Trouble is that you aren't putting out a completed game but in chunks with weeks or even months in between. Your player probably won't remember where they have been all that time ago. Even so people are very good at not following instruction if they can. You often need to do it multiple times for it to stick. So that is why a hint system is important even with good design.

 

[jamdan]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned. A lot of sandbox games use a phone or PC for the player to use. Be it ordering stuff online, hint/quest documentation, or text messages from LI's.

Make sure that phone and PC is easy to get to and use. And make sure the buttons in them are easily clicked and found. I've played plenty of games that I had to be a detective to find how to close the phone/pc because the "exit" button was a tiny X in a corner of the window.

And the MC's bed, often where you have to sleep in order to go to the next day, should be "sleepable" at all times of the day so you don't have to take a bunch of naps or time skip to go to bed. Like the previous post about clicks, it shouldn't be a grind just to go from place A to B.

 

[BeelzeRog]

To me, if it is a 'sandbox', it means that you have the ability to explore and maybe make your own fun. Otherwise just make a map to go from point 'A' to point 'B'. Yes, I agree that you should be clear about where to go and what to do, but you should have the opportunity to go 'off script'. And it doesn't need to have a fully scripted event going on every place, but occasionally have something going on if you show up somewhere when it's not part of the regular gameplay.

 

[DuniX]

The reason I like Sandbox is simply because I can't play linear railroaded games.
With how much I skip the "story" that bores me, if it's not a sandbox I would have skipped the whole game.
I can only handle piecemeal chunks of "story" until I get bored and it's good if I have some other gameplay to keep me occupied in between.