RPGM Tower of Trample [v1.18.0.4 + Standalone SC3] [Bo Wei/Koda]

[EvaSlavE]

Yeah, I'm personally glad to see the darker atmosphere and story-driven floor. I think this was a cool one. I just wish it was a bit more... intimate? Not like gentle femdom, just... I wish we actually got to spend more time getting messed up by Karen personally, I guess. I really want to like her more, but it just seems like there isn't enough to build off of her in that regard.

I'm more than okay with boundaries being tested though. What's the point of having so many different ladies if you can't have variety and try new stuff?

i say while desperately clutching to the hope that there will be more feet stuff every time i find a new villainess

 

[EvaSlavE]

Does Karen even have a conventional submission route like the other girls? I'm not quite done yet, but it seems like she doesn't from the sound of it.

As much as I love the finality and permanence of a game over... I love all the extra stuff most of the girls have after you beat them, too.

 

[zazzaro]

That said, I'm actually a big softie so I sympathize with not wanting anything bad to happen to the Monks (and dialed the endings way back from Bo's original drafts, which were borderline depression-porn)

Man that takes me back. A couple of years back I found this hentai manga with a shy girl who's inncocence got basically abused to the point she basically ruined her life. Legit couldn't fap, and I think I even teared up a little at the end. Whoever wrote that is an asshole.

 

[bahamut2195]

Oh I think for the most part the users on here have pretty broad horizons in regards to fetishes @Koda, most of the lamenting tends towards the "its not my cup of tea" type rather than the "this fetish is gross and unacceptable" archetype. I have to disagree with the idea that broadening one's horizons is the answer. Generally with porn, you know you like it when you see it. It's not a mindset, its a reaction.

Now, were a person to criticize a fetish having no experience with it, then you would have a legitimate complaint I think. But players here have experienced Karen's content and are reacting to what they played through, having given said content an honest appraisal.

That being said, you and Bo Wei do you. We will all grouse to each other on the forums about what we want and what we didn't get and what we would change, but most of us will still download, play, and enjoy "i.e.fap to" the game regardless.

 

[GearlessJoe]

As for the kink discussion: a lot of you need to broaden your horizons. Stuff like "weaponized odor" and "eldritch domination" is actually more vanilla and common-place than a lot of stuff in the game. There's a ton of lewd stuff involving mind-flayers and otherwise tentacular/psionic mind-breaks, as well as gas-masks, medical/stink bondage... even SS/Nazi stuff if you want to fetishize the idea of Karen being some sort of evil, leather-clad threat more than the stink itself. (Picking those examples because they're the most recent, not trying to call those users out.)

The same is true for the "shonen drama" some people are complaining about. For myself (and many others), the submissive options and scenarios the MC encounters are sexier if there's an actual heroic counterweight. Becoming a legitimate threat to the tower also ups the ante (psychologically, if nothing else) about what the women can/will/must do tame him. It's fine if that does nothing for you or you think it's cheesy (it absolutely is), but analyzing those events under the assumption that they're not meant to have fetish value will lead you to incomplete conclusions.

Obviously I'm not saying anyone needs to like, appreciate, or approve of any particular kink, but a lot of people seem to draw the line at what's even a "conceivable" fetish at precisely where their own tastes end, which is silly and solipsistic. It's nearly 2019: if you don't understand a fetish, look it up (this goes triple for the folks who still haven't figured out that pegging/futa/traps/mm are different things, by the way).

There is no "understanding" a kink, Koda. You either get turned on by something, or you don't, and that's something you won't change with your game, try as you might. You can accept other people's kinks, sure, but I don't feel too inclined to accept something if it's being shoved down my throat. And that's why I think criticizing 6F's kinks is fair game in this case, you're forcing all players to experience them. The "buffet analogy" was thrown out the window this update, and that's disappointing as hell.

 

[guileguileguileguile]

love the drawing and the atmosphere of the update, and tbh i'd wait the same amount of time for another update this big. Bravo!

however like some others said, i'm not totally on board with the fetish content. smell and boots is wayy too used at this point.

why not maybe:
-stare at a cleavage or a butt instead of a pantyhose or shoes
-lick a bra or panties instead of dirt of a shoe lol or even jerk off with them.
-peek a naked shadow behind a curtain or shower glass-door
-get butt plugged and which gets your stats down in fights and add a few lines from the mistresses
-forced to lick your cum or even dick in order to get intimate with the mistress
-double ganged by 2 mistresses at once.
-lotion/baby oil play, like anything related to that lol.
-small penis humiliation/ jerk off instruction

i know its a reverse ryona so the beat down of the male is in itself is supposed to be the fetish, but i mean for the million scenes with smell and shoes and pantyhose just a change of pace would help!

 

[Koda-]

@bahamut2195
My reading of most of it is more "why would someone include this?" which reflects a lack of understanding of the appeal of the fetish (or more importantly, that such an appeal exists at all to some people).

There is a difference between "this isn't my cup of tea" and "there is no possible justification for brewing this cup of tea." Naturally if you're reading more posts the former way and I'm reading them as the latter then one of us is just minsinterpreting and at least we generally understand one another.

To give an example of the difference between understanding and having a fetish, though: Lily doesn't particularly appeal to Bo or myself, but we still understand what her appeal is and thus created a character who seems to have greatly satisfied people into her "type".

@GearlessJoe meanwhile would argue that this is impossible, which explains a lot about his consistently atrocious argumentation and general petulance.

As for Mr. Joe: Since you're passionate about the game if nothing else, I want to give you the courtesy of noting that your insatiable outrage (not to mention your new signature) make you come off more as a "#gamersriseup" caricature too infatuated with your own indignation and (supposedly) enlightened "criticism" than someone actually interested in providing usable feedback about the game.

If you said: "As someone who doesn't like Karen and thought something close to a pure/non-submissive playthrough would be possible, any way to avoid losing to her would be nice."

I would say: "Can't guarantee you won't be forced to submit on certain floors, but in this case an ability to end the fight without losing after you've passed the turn objective seems fine," and I would add such an ability (which I did, yesterday, because it's a reasonable idea in a vacuum).

If you said: "I think Cobra is forced too much on the player."

I'd say: "You only have to beat her once and then endure her giving a few lore dumps. If that's too much for your just hold CTRL for 30 seconds or so."

If you said: "Isn't a railroaded fight like this somewhat contradictory to your characterization of the game as a buffet?"

I'd say: "You can still minimize your interaction with Karen as much as any other girl by avoiding her bedroom or quests (which are not in fact required for the good ending). Please note that although the game is a buffet, it is still a hardcore femdom/msub buffet and there may be some content you can't avoid or opt out of if we think the value of forcing it outweighs the potential inconvenience to the player. The buffet analogy referred to more granular stuff like doing a particular floor's expansion to explain why not every submission has consequences as global or permanent as one might like and may not perfectly apply out of the context of its discussion."

Note that my rendering of the mock-criticism is specific about what happened, why it didn't satisfy you, and what could maybe be done to satisfy you. Note that it lacks any presumption about what exactly we did, why, or any nonsense about our "dev philosophy" that you're definitely not an authority on and that I definitely don't want to sift through to find your actual point.

If you just want to whine, whine. But don't pretend it's anything else until you refine it properly.

 

[fanboi]

That being said, you and Bo Wei do you. We will all grouse to each other on the forums about what we want and what we didn't get and what we would change, but most of us will still download, play, and enjoy "i.e.fap to" the game regardless.

I think this is important in these types of games. If you're not into and passionate about the creative work, I don't think it would be nearly as good. So I'll also say: Bo & Koda, be Bo & Koda and put out something you want to put out, because the quality is definitely going to be higher.

however like some others said, i'm not totally on board with the fetish content. smell and boots is wayy too used at this point.

why not maybe:
-stare at a cleavage or a butt instead of a pantyhose or shoes
-lick a bra or panties instead of dirt of a shoe lol or even jerk off with them.
-peek a naked shadow behind a curtain or shower glass-door
-double ganged by 2 mistresses at once.
-lotion/baby oil play, like anything related to that lol.
-small penis humiliation/ jerk off instruction

I don't mind the smelling so much, but way too much boots already - but of course that's just me, I'm sure others enjoy it. Would really love some of the scenarios you listed (especially panties and JOI - love when Scarlett and Khulan order Ethan to cum).

 

[zombieslave776]

Hey Koda, I just wanted to say I really do think the game is great even though Karen isn't my cup of tea. I think at least for me Bahamut's reading of my comments is more accurate than yours. I am absolutely in no position to kink shame. People can get off to whatever they want. It's just a little disappointing when something that up until now has matched my kinks perfectly is starting to drift away. If I was watching amazing porn advertised solely as foot fetish I don't think I would be wrong or narrowminded to be a little disappointed if 2/3 of the way through it suddenly turned into nothing but scat. With fetishes you either have it or you don't and I'm hoping that Karen isn't an indication that this game is going to get further and further from the more grounded pure femdom of the earlier floors. I saw in an earlier post that Bo Wei wanted to stay away from monster girls as it's overplayed which is a decision I'm appreciative of, but it kind of feels like the new girls are becoming monster girls who just happen to be physically completely human, with Karen essentially being a mind flayer. That said, it's your game. Do whatever you want and whatever turns you on. The production values remain super high compared to what else is out there and I'm sure the people with those fetishes will continue to love it.

With regards to not needing to complete Karen's quests to get the good ending. I have a save file with the first 3 monks saved and no quests done, and if I save the 4th I get the medium ending. If I then complete the quests I get the good ending. If it's not the quests I would have to guess it's the sewer note that triggers it, which if that's the case you have to admit that you have to at least start one of the quests to trigger it which you're only going to discover playing blind if you complete all of them.

 

[Brakalt]

Are people actually talking about "plausibility" and "realism" in ToT as an excuse why they don't like the new floor? like seriously guys, the whole game has never been realistic to begin with, I don't get how "Karen's scent thing makes no sense" when you make the same comparison to Scarlett who literally reorganizes your brain with her smell. Bo and Koda have always used scents in some weird fantasy way to mind control people, this is the same thing. If you aren't into fantasy I don't know why this is the straw that broke the camels back.

I agree that with some about the villainess, wasn't really my thing, came off to harsh, and i've never been into smell, boots or piss. But hey I don't like Yvonne and some people are in to her, to each their own. It's bound to happen in a game where you have two of the writers/programmers who are into different types of Femdom. Koda is more into softer, caring, manipulative ones, while Bo focuses on harsher and brutal ones.

I still think the biggest takeaway from all of this is the fact that the actual production and CG's were fucking good (and a conclusive ending to a floor for once), bodes well for future content.

 

[k3k]

hey koda, hotfix when?

 

[GearlessJoe]

As for Mr. Joe: Since you're passionate about the game if nothing else, I want to give you the courtesy of noting that your insatiable outrage (not to mention your new signature) make you come off more as a "#gamersriseup" caricature too infatuated with your own indignation and (supposedly) enlightened "criticism" than someone actually interested in providing usable feedback about the game.

The whole point of that signature was making fun of myself, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously... Despite what you may think of me, I do realize how I may seem like a bit of heckler, especially to someone who isn't a regular on this forum, which is why I tried to poke fun at myself, but whatever. I did try to ask you things respectfully with

You must be registered to see the links

, and I guess I jumped the gun when I thought I was being ignored, so I apologize.

I do appreciate you at least coming to this forum to read this part of the community's opinions, even if you think some of us are just complaining for complaining's sake, and I'd rather this little discussion didn't devolve into name-calling and such, even though anyone going into such a bout with you would have plenty of ammunition given what's been going on with ToT in the past month or two.

If you said: "As someone who doesn't like Karen and thought something close to a pure/non-submissive playthrough would be possible, any way to avoid losing to her would be nice."

I would say: "Can't guarantee you won't be forced to submit on certain floors, but in this case an ability to end the fight without losing after you've passed the turn objective seems fine," and I would add such an ability (which I did, yesterday, because it's a reasonable idea in a vacuum).

THANK YOU. So you are taking my criticism seriously, then. Why say you aren't?

If you said: "I think Cobra is forced too much on the player."

I'd say: "You only have to beat her once and then endure her giving a few lore dumps. If that's too much for your just hold CTRL for 30 seconds or so."

In 5F part 2, Cobra has two bits of dialogue while you're fighting Lily before the portal is opened. One is for players who haven't submitted to Cobra, the other is for players who have. It is still assumed in Cobra's dialogue for players who haven't submitted to her that Ethan has lost to her multiple times and is in the process of becoming her slave. Yes, you can just skip that dialogue, and pretend you didn't read it if you've never lost to Cobra once, but it'll still be there, breaking those players' immersion and ability to RP momentarily, while showing obvious bias from the devs towards Cobra and against Lily, that you at least admit to. Plus, Cobra fans already have the dialogue option where they acknowledge Cobra as their mistress in front of everyone after submitting to her.

You can still minimize your interaction with Karen as much as any other girl by avoiding her bedroom or quests (which are not in fact required for the good ending).

Guess that's my bad then, I thought you needed to at least do her quests to get the good end

Please note that although the game is a buffet, it is still a hardcore femdom/msub buffet and there may be some content you can't avoid or opt out of if we think the value of forcing it outweighs the potential inconvenience to the player. The buffet analogy referred to more granular stuff like doing a particular floor's expansion to explain why not every submission has consequences as global or permanent as one might like and may not perfectly apply out of the context of its discussion."

Doesn't matter if you used the analogy with some caveats, since metaphors can't be patented. I thought it fit this type of game perfectly, and I guess it was my mistake thinking that it was something you fully adhered to.
And yes, given that the game is about femdom, there is some value in forced submission, but I heavily disagree in that "the value of forcing it outweighs the potential inconvenience to the player". You're really underestimating players' discomfort when they're being forced to submit to mistresses they don't like, if you're calling it a "potential inconvenience" . The only way I'd see it as acceptable is if you managed to craft the perfect mistress, with kinks universally accepted, that we all can get behind. And that is definitely not what Karen is.

I DO appreciate the effort Koda, I DO like the content you put out, and as you noted I AM very passionate about the game. So sorry for being a bit of a jerk, and sincerely, THANKS for making a great game, even if I sometimes think it can be better, the same goes for everything.

 

[bahamut2195]

Are people actually talking about "plausibility" and "realism" in ToT as an excuse why they don't like the new floor? like seriously guys, the whole game has never been realistic to begin with, I don't get how "Karen's scent thing makes no sense" when you make the same comparison to Scarlett who literally reorganizes your brain with her smell. Bo and Koda have always used scents in some weird fantasy way to mind control people, this is the same thing. If you aren't into fantasy I don't know why this is the straw that broke the camels back.

I agree that with some about the villainess, wasn't really my thing, came off to harsh, and i've never been into smell, boots or piss. But hey I don't like Yvonne and some people are in to her, to each their own. It's bound to happen in a game where you have two of the writers/programmers who are into different types of Femdom. Koda is more into softer, caring, manipulative ones, while Bo focuses on harsher and brutal ones.

I still think the biggest takeaway from all of this is the fact that the actual production and CG's were fucking good (and a conclusive ending to a floor for once), bodes well for future content.

Realism is the wrong word, and my use of it was poorly chosen. Realism is of course not to be expected in a game like this, nor do I actually expect it. That being said, Scarlett was SOMEWHAT believable, insofar as she had to work to develop Ethan's attraction to her, and it progressed in stages, like training a dog. Hence why the puppy suit worked for her.

Karen on the other hand overpowers men simply by being, what, alive? Her scent is so overpowering that men instantly crumble before her mighty odor? It's a little much for me, which is my point. I'm definitely not saying You can't have that in a game, I just like the Scarlett model far better, and find it hotter. If you liked Karen better, thats cool too. For me though, I can only stretch reality so far before it takes some of the immersion away.

We both agree though: to each his/her own. And to be perfectly clear, Though I bitch alot about the game recently, it is still hands down my favorite game on here. It's not even a contest. That's why I spend time writing the walkthrough and complaining about things in the game. I wouldn't be voicing my opinion if I wasn't a huge fan of Bo Wei and Koda's work.

 

[LukeSky001]

here is mine all 4 monks saved good ending

HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO GET DEF 999???

 

[h-kingu]

Yeah, I'm personally glad to see the darker atmosphere and story-driven floor. I think this was a cool one. I just wish it was a bit more... intimate? Not like gentle femdom, just... I wish we actually got to spend more time getting messed up by Karen personally, I guess. I really want to like her more, but it just seems like there isn't enough to build off of her in that regard.

I'm more than okay with boundaries being tested though. What's the point of having so many different ladies if you can't have variety and try new stuff?

i say while desperately clutching to the hope that there will be more feet stuff every time i find a new villainess

I agree with you,this floor had a plot turn point which i dig, and I bet there will be more Karen stuff when you reach upper floors and get stronger or at least i hope so.....

 

[h-kingu]

Man that takes me back. A couple of years back I found this hentai manga with a shy girl who's inncocence got basically abused to the point she basically ruined her life. Legit couldn't fap, and I think I even teared up a little at the end. Whoever wrote that is an asshole.

do you mean ''emergence'' i just so some panels of it and didn't even dare to read it

 

[Brakalt]

Realism is the wrong word, and my use of it was poorly chosen. Realism is of course not to be expected in a game like this, nor do I actually expect it. That being said, Scarlett was SOMEWHAT believable, insofar as she had to work to develop Ethan's attraction to her, and it progressed in stages, like training a dog. Hence why the puppy suit worked for her.

Karen on the other hand overpowers men simply by being, what, alive? Her scent is so overpowering that men instantly crumble before her mighty odor? It's a little much for me, which is my point. I'm definitely not saying You can't have that in a game, I just like the Scarlett model far better, and find it hotter. If you liked Karen better, thats cool too. For me though, I can only stretch reality so far before it takes some of the immersion away.

We both agree though: to each his/her own. And to be perfectly clear, Though I bitch alot about the game recently, it is still hands down my favorite game on here. It's not even a contest. That's why I spend time writing the walkthrough and complaining about things in the game. I wouldn't be voicing my opinion if I wasn't a huge fan of Bo Wei and Koda's work.

While I agree that I liked the Scarlett route better, Karen doesn't just break people down with her presence, although she's intimidating and does it with the monks. For Ethan specifically she breaks him by making him watch the people he tries to save be corrupted and essentially labotomise them in front of him and convince him that it's his fault that he couldn't save them, making him feel powerless, she could simply do it the easy way but decides to make Ethan suffer before she essentially finishes him off because she's bored. Which is a bit too sadistic for me personally but does show her form of manipulation which matches her character.

P.S don't know why but the menagerie ending freaked me out more than the "Trophy ending".

 

[NeroZee]

People can criticize, can comment, put forward their positive or negative feedback. But honestly people are sometimes way too entitled, even if you are a supporter on patreon there is a line between being respectful to someone that did nothing wrong to you personally and also losing your shit because someone made some "wrong decisions" in a game you like.

In my particular case for instance i not only dislike Lily, i outright HATE her i literally just skipped through her entire content just did what i had to do to progress to another floor, i was actually upset that any development time was wasted on her, she simply isn't my cup of tea at all. And guess what? I didn't flip my shit at anyone either, i am well aware considering with all the fetishes that we are dealing with that there will be future floors where i just wont like the character at all, it wont appeal to me and the whole thing will feel like "Oh well that was another 1-2 months of wasted time" but thats something i have to accept as a possible reality, because those characters WILL appeal to someone else.

Koda and Bo are clearly trying to appease as many people as possible and that's not an easy thing to do considering how strict and defensive some people are about their fetishes and how little it takes to push them over, i mean how much femdom is acceptable femdom? Someone likes when it involves physical torture(and even that is split to how much you can take), someone doesn't, someone likes when it involves body odor, someone doesn't, someone likes golden showers, others don't, etc... It's not possible to please everyone ALL OF THE TIME.

Anyway this little rant wasnt aimed at anyone particular just the overall feel i have gotten after reading through several pages of comments.
Finally my advice to everyone is just relax, don't get so adamant about it, try to be more understanding and realistic about things and know that there almost certainly WILL BE fetishes and characters in the future you wont like even outright HATE but that will appeal to others, so the choice is up to you whether you can deal with that reality like an adult or throw a temper tantrum every time things don't go your way.
Nobody is putting a gun to your neck to even play this game that can be played for FREE btw, let alone throw your support on patreon.

Cobra still best girl btw(although her update wasn't my thing, but maybe it was for someone else).

 

[bahamut2195]

HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO GET DEF 999???

Save editor.

 

[Koda-]

@k3k
Probably tomorrow night.
Adding some lewd stuff in addition to the mechanical so it's taking a bit longer.

@guileguileguileguile / @fanboi
The boot-focus is mostly a fluke of Yvonne's Expansion and Karen's release aligning. I don't believe the next boss is boot focused and mine certainly isn't (though I do like them, obviously). Feet/smell will probably be present for every boss simply due to Bo's tastes, though.

@GearlessJoe
But that criticism isn't yours. It might align with how you feel, but the point I'm making is that your articulation (ie. what you actually type) is problematic. If my "short version" is all you were trying to say, just type that next time and omit the drama and psychoanalysis.

I looked into the Cobra thing and the only line I saw that could be construed as what you're describing is: "...are you just trying to give me credit so your losses seem less humiliating~?", which is meant to include (and presume) future/eventual losses, not necessarily imply you lost already.

The issue is sort of moot since there will absolutely be bosses you're forced to lose to, but Cobra isn't one of them and I'm willing to make an adjustment if I presented her improperly somewhere. If you remember the exact line/section, show me.

As for forcing content on the player. The thresholds vary from person to person, and if yours is more conservative than the one we design the game with (which it seems to be), you may indeed be unhappy at points. That said, your personal threshold also isn't universal, so while you may think I'm underestimating the average player's, you might just be especially sensitive to this type of thing. Obviously this is hard to determine without more feedback from a variety of players, but your weigh-in is noted.

@zombieslave776
No worries. Just raised an eyebrow when you made the eldritch comparison (which I actually think is great for Karen) because I thought "has this guy never seen mind-flayer lewds? missing out!". Totally understand if it's just not your thing.

The anti-monster-girl stance gets taken out of context somewhat. Bo (and I) are more against "obligatory" or contrived content (which monster-girls, especially recently, tend to be). If we have some brilliant Angel or Succubus or Cow-Girl or Kitsune or otherwise supernatural idea, we won't arbitrarily avoid making it. We just won't include any of those things purely on the basis that they're "femdom staples" (which is why they're commonly suggested, along with Loli/GTS/Sissy/etc.).

That may disappoint you if you don't like supernatural elements, but Bo absolutely considers the game primarily a foot-fetish game (its apparent tilt towards more general femdom fare is the fault of my expansions), so some foot/sock/stocking/boot/smell/etc. will basically always be a main focus.

@bahamut2195
I agree "realism" is a clunky description in this context. Your description of Scarlett versus Karen's methods I think is a better unpacking of what some people are actually feeling. One thing I will say is that I personally try to be a bit ambiguous with this sort of thing. People often ask if the "smell magic" is real or if the PC just has an overwhelming foot fetish that's abstracted as mind control. For the most part, I leave it to the reader to find a spot on that spectrum that works for them.

I'll spoil slightly that there is a much more explicit hypno/mc character planned, although (ironically?) it's not at all smell-based.

@Brakalt
I consider the Menagerie End to be the first true Bad End (and may even edit the final text to mark it as one), so being freaked out is totally reasonable. It is bad both in the sense that something bad happens to the PC, it lacks the happiness-in-mindbreak elements of Yvonne's and Khulan's ends, and it represents a premature ending to Karen's potential story.

Perhaps too premature, as I know some people ( @n_SNeK ) were hoping for something more involved. But the player / PC doesn't earn much in that ending. All you did was constantly lose to Karen and bore her, and since you're last in line, there isn't even anyone left to distress by dragging out your destruction. So she basically gives you a coup-de-grace and then leaves you in a cage like the rest of them.

The "Karen's Slave" or "Karen's Pet" or "10th Stage of Dehumanization" (ie. the Good/"True" Bad Ends) will come when you challenge her on her real floor later and prove you're worth truly breaking (in theory; no these aren't promises or announcements).

Obviously that won't change the ending feeling short and unsatisfying to some in general (we do have limited time, sorry!), but there was also an element of not wanting to "give up the goods" on Karen too early.