Ren'Py The Journey - Developers blog

[RomanHume]

Of course you may

And no, no coding background. I've an analytical background myself so the logical thought process useful for coding is there I suppose but as for touching Daz or Renpy....first time I even had a go was in March. Hence why the steep improvement/learning curve I suspect and why stuff I did earlier , especially on renders,- which I thought was OK - now no longer is.

Basically I have my story and decide what I want the game to do - then work out how to do it! Which is where a lot of the fun for me comes from to be honest. That whole "can I make it do this?" sort of thing. It's also why the game originally kept growing and why the playtesters, quite rightly, took me to task over some of the stuff that was originally in the game.

The inventory system is a case in point. I was so keen to have one, just to see if I could make it work, that I did lose sight of -why- I needed one. In the end it really turned out that the inventory system was just adding steps to the game that either weren't really needed or just distracted from the flow. The most cutting feedback I had was "So...I'm getting Hinterlands vibes here..." which if you've ever played Dragon Age Inquisition you'll know what she meant by that!

For example, there is a stage in the prologue where, for the sake of not spoiling anything, an "incident" happens. Now the MC has a number of ways of solving this whilst on a small shuttle craft. And depending on what solution the MC chooses will take him down various paths, impact on how people see him etc. So far so good. Now two of his options require a piece of (different) equipment. Which seemed perfect for having an inventory system - yet all it was really doing was adding a few extra steps for the MC to find X and use X.... It didn't actually add to the game at all, just added a few extra clicks. I mean, he's on a small shuttle at this point - everything is practically in reach anyway!



Oh God...I hope I don't let you down!

I'll confess I -think- it will be a good game - but we'll wait and see what others think!

That you coded an inventory system with no previous exposure to renpy is impressive to me. We decided what we needed from renpy was the ability to write a branching story, nothing more for now. So we focused our efforts on learning the ins and outs of Daz which lead to a 1000% superiority in our Daz skills over Renpy.

Renpy frustrates me sometimes because simple shit I'd do in Python can have strange results in Renpy. Designing an inventory system for example is beyond our skillset at this moment, so kudos to you!

But learning Daz surfaces, lighting, physics, etc. That I enjoy.

It doesn't take much to improve a Daz render to the point where all of your previous work looks shoddy. Even now we have to force ourselves not to go back and improve our old renders. So I understand your struggle!

If you ever need an objective play tester though, let me know. I'd be happy to offer a fresh unbiased view, one dev to another.

 

[Nottravis]

Renpy frustrates me sometimes because simple shit I'd do in Python can have strange results in Renpy.

THIS! Totally! I love and hate Renpy in equal measure! You might be impressed I did an inventory system but I still haven't cracked how to do a customised text input box for entering the players name! Everything else is customised except that bloody thing, it drives me nuts!

It doesn't take much to improve a Daz render to the point where all of your previous work looks shoddy

Oh isn't that the truth!

I'm only working with a 2GB card so originally made the decision to work at 1280 size but....meh. Now I look at them again, and add in I've got better at Daz, they look bloody awful - at least to me. So...since I'm starting again I'm re-rendering them all at a larger size in HD.

Spoiler: Old style tutorial page

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Spoiler: New style tutorial page

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Might not look an awful lot of difference using Imgur but it really makes a difference when playing at full screen!

If you ever need an objective play tester though, let me know. I'd be happy to offer a fresh unbiased view, one dev to another.

But..but..but..you'd see my terrible coding!
Seriously though that's one hell of an offer. Thank you. Let me see if I can crack this third go [/SPOILER]

 

[RomanHume]

THIS! Totally! I love and hate Renpy in equal measure! You might be impressed I did an inventory system but I still haven't cracked how to do a customised text input box for entering the players name! Everything else is customised except that bloody thing, it drives me nuts!

That was a frustrating afternoon for me. Slowly going through the customization options and tweaking one thing at time, loading the game and seeing what changed. I fail to see why after all this time Renpy has failed to put out a more comprehensive document on their product.

I'm only working with a 2GB card so originally made the decision to work at 1280 size but....meh. Now I look at them again, and add in I've got better at Daz, they look bloody awful - at least to me. So...since I'm starting again I'm re-rendering them all at a larger size in HD.

One trick we use religiously is to render out at 4000 pixels wide in a 16:9 ratio. We let it run for five to twenty minutes depending on complexity, then use photo shop to scale it down to 1280 x 720. Photoshops sampling during the resizing removes a lot of grain and noise and leaves you with a very clean image that takes a fraction of the time.

Spoiler: Old style tutorial page

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Spoiler: New style tutorial page

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Might not look an awful lot of difference using Imgur but it really makes a difference when playing at full screen!

I love that you are taking the time to fix the small things. Too man times have I seen the pose in your first image and the left hand isn't fully resting on the hip. And her facial expression in the second image looks a lot more natural. Bravo!

But..but..but..you'd see my terrible coding!
Seriously though that's one hell of an offer. Thank you. Let me see if I can crack this third go

That's ok. Play our game and you'll see the work of a man who tries to type as fast as he thinks and constantly fails. I'm still fixing typos from version 1. :winkytongue:

 

[supermanz95]

My days what a goddess, something about girls with short hair and no makeup is gods gift

Spoiler

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[Nottravis]

My days what a goddess, something about girls with short hair and no makeup is gods gift

Spoiler

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Thank you

 

[Nottravis]

So an update!

The big news is with any luck it's going to be ready for playtesting again this weekend. Given that the re-work should have dealt with the original playtest concerns, this should be more of a bug test than anything else so.....it could/should be out next week!

Bullet points!

• Code and scripts have been redone
• Graphics are now 1920 as opposed to 1280
• Major re-work of some character designs
• Gameplay simplified without pointless "flashy" bits
• The old mini-games have been shuffled off to the side and no longer form part of the main gameplay
• Name change of the game

The re-rendering, although a pain, has been well worth it tbh. If I'm -really- honest with myself I probably should have learned more about using Daz before trying to put a game together in the first place I think. Still, we're all smarties with 20/20 hindsight are we not?

If we just compare the loading screen for example...

Spoiler: new screen vs old screen

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I've also been more disciplined with respects to the storyline and events. Now I have a better grip on what is possible and, rendering time limitations, I've been a bit more realistic on how much content each chapter can take. One thing I haven't lost sight of is to make each chapter self contained. It's key to me that the game has neither no grind nor any loose ends at each stage and that each part or chapter is complete.

Again this has been a blessing and a curse in some ways, as the chapter length has ended up increasing to twelve. Hell, if I used every idea I had in what passes for my brain the twelve chapters would just be season one! But I'm being good (ish) and restricting myself to a single twelve parter

So...fingers crossed you can all tell me how rubbish it is next week

 

[HiEv]

The re-rendering, although a pain, has been well worth it tbh. If I'm -really- honest with myself I probably should have learned more about using Daz before trying to put a game together in the first place I think. Still, we're all smarties with 20/20 hindsight are we not?

Cool, glad it worked out.

That said, with any non-minor project you'll often find that after you've written it, only then do you really understand how to do it correctly... and the way you did it wasn't it. :winkytongue: After that the trick is knowing when to go back and fix it, and when to say, "Good enough."

Good luck!

 

[Nottravis]

That said, with any non-minor project you'll often find that after you've written it, only then do you really understand how to do it correctly... and the way you did it wasn't it. :winkytongue:

Too bloody true!

But I have learned a ton, so there is that!

 

[Nottravis]

IT LIVES!

So the good news is it finally past it's play tests!

I've made a few changes since the last update include revising the user interface somewhat. So the PDA Icon in the corner, which is the players main interface with anything not immediately story related, has been reworked and now does all sorts of whizzy stuff. Messaging, accessing sub interfaces etc. One bit I'm rather pleased with is being able to pop a lot of the background lore into an information section. The game universe is fairly detailed but I didn't want to do massive info dumps on players if they weren't interested in that sort of thing. By just having a mechanic that, whenever anything new comes along, they can access more information on it if they wish it made the whole thing a bit tidier.

Spoiler: Look what it can do!

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The good/bad news is that having boosted all the graphics and increased the size, the background and setting model used for the spaceship was....not very good. It looked passable at 1280 but once you start ramping up the details and quality of the renders the whole thing looked rather flat. So I am having to rework the images (again!).

On the other hand they look a damn sight better. There are so few decent spaceship models that come with a usuable interior which is the problem. And even the model I found I had to kitbash fairly extensively to "work" and be realistic for the setting. On the other hand, I did it!. By some basic (although I'd be lying if I said I wasn't feeling quite pleased with myself) work, I rejigged the layout, edited and amended the underlying asset models and even got all the various instrument panels to glow nicely!

Spoiler: Old vs new interior

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So I have about 500 renders to do, give or take. A pain in the bum for sure but worth it.

500 renders will take me about two weeks at a guess. But -finally- everything is now settled. Mechanics, assets, storyline etc.

Given the labour pains of this beastie, there is part of me that sorta wishes I'd kept quiet about the whole thing and then just released it when it was ready. On the other hand, I hope you've found the insights into the pain of being a first time dev interesting or, if you're reading this and thinking of making your own game, useful as to a steer of not only not what to do but also in respect of just how big a job it can be sometimes.

I'll drop some various non-spoilery renders up over the next few days as I progress.

 

[Nottravis]

Render progress log!

Well I did say I'd keep you updated, no?

So out of a grand total of 537 renders needed so far for the first chapter I've 186 done. To be honest I'd expected to be further but I'm battling with a 2GB card so, even using every trick in the book, it's taking time. On the other hand, given that a lot of the early renders include the majority of conversation close ups it's not looking too bad as the close ups -really- suck up processing requirements. Especially when using fine detail hair.

Sarah in particular can be a bitch to render close up wise. It was getting so bad earlier this week she nearly got a make over but, having tried a few different styles in desperation, she just didn't look "Sarah" enough for me so...she got a reprieve. I'm taking comfort from the pain she causes me knowing what can possibly happen to her later down the line.....

So I suppose it's time to show the goods?

Now I totes promise I've done the best I can here given the limitations I'm working with. As well as that I've also modified assets as much as possible so as to avoid the usual "I've seen that somewhere before" sorta thing. This includes making little props for the background etc to add flavour and, again, bring something new to the party. Hopefully any "meh" in render quality will be offset by the quality of gameplay.

But enough prattling on...time for some renders *takes deep breath*

Spoiler: User interface in action

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Spoiler: Custom background assets lying around

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Spoiler: Welcome aboard

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Spoiler: Meet your engineer

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Spoiler: Sarah looking puzzled mid conversation

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All very non spoilery but it gives you an idea. I'll crack on knocking the rest of them out swearing at my card and Sarah in equal measure until done!

 

[Nottravis]

This is going to seem an odd thing to say but I hate the fact that I'm getting better at rendering....it sorta makes me want to redo the ones I've already done. But I won't - if only because this game will never get done otherwise!

Alright...I might have redone some...
*coughs*
Anyhoo! Progress! 246 out of ..um..562. I might have added a scene...um. I know, I know....Winds of sodding Winter seems a safer bet for coming out at this rate!

Still, half way there more or less, so that's something.

Progress renders to prove it too!

Again all non-spoiler based. But here's a few from the launch scene at the start.

Spoiler: Intrepid in orbit

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Spoiler: Intrepid ATC

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Spoiler: Heavy Five launched

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Spoiler: Chris doing pre-launch checks..

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[supermanz95]

This might be out there, but do you have a render of what does protagonist look like ?

 

[Nottravis]

This might be out there, but do you have a render of what does protagonist look like ?

Not out there at all!

It's a POV style game I'm afraid though. So there isn't really anything to show. The MC looks however you want the to be.

Originally I was going to have it so you could play as male or female but for now it's just male protag only.

 

[RomanHume]

Haven't seen a post for awhile, wanted to drop in and see how things were going. Cheers!

 

[Nottravis]

Haven't seen a post for awhile, wanted to drop in and see how things were going. Cheers!

Thanks for asking

The first chapter is all finished! I'm just tinkering with the interface a little bit then I'll finally be happy with it. One of the last things I'm wrestling with is how to balance the players sense of progress yet at the same time make that progress not in the realms of "second sight".

What I mean is in real life we don't really know how people think about us. We have an idea, but sadly people don't go around with little hearts above their head etc to show us what they really feel/think about us. So I'm trying a narrative based approached instead. One that becomes more accurate the better you know the person.

As with everything I try to implement, I thought it would be easier than it's turned out to be of course! Thankfully it works, I'm just trying to make it less "clunky" at the moment. But I want to try and nail this so that I can progress with further chapters without having to revisit any of the mechanics later.

Spoiler: example

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Of course that now leaves me with a completely different problem as I wrap up this first chapter.

Given this chapter has been re-written three times, has been rendered and then re-rendered a further twice due to changing assets and larger graphic sizes, and has been subject to constant "oh, wouldn't it be good if I did that!"'s ....I have no idea how long a chapter will now actually take to make!

I'm torn now between releasing the bloody thing as soon as I'm happy with this last bit, or sitting on it whilst I do chapter two so I have an idea on how long an update will actually take. People rather like monthly updates is my feel ( I know I do). If it's going to take me two months to do a chapter it might be better to know in advance. Thoughts?

 

[RomanHume]

Thanks for asking

The first chapter is all finished! I'm just tinkering with the interface a little bit then I'll finally be happy with it. One of the last things I'm wrestling with is how to balance the players sense of progress yet at the same time make that progress not in the realms of "second sight".

What I mean is in real life we don't really know how people think about us. We have an idea, but sadly people don't go around with little hearts above their head etc to show us what they really feel/think about us. So I'm trying a narrative based approached instead. One that becomes more accurate the better you know the person.

As with everything I try to implement, I thought it would be easier than it's turned out to be of course! Thankfully it works, I'm just trying to make it less "clunky" at the moment. But I want to try and nail this so that I can progress with further chapters without having to revisit any of the mechanics later.

Spoiler: example

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Of course that now leaves me with a completely different problem as I wrap up this first chapter.

Given this chapter has been re-written three times, has been rendered and then re-rendered a further twice due to changing assets and larger graphic sizes, and has been subject to constant "oh, wouldn't it be good if I did that!"'s ....I have no idea how long a chapter will now actually take to make!

I'm torn now between releasing the bloody thing as soon as I'm happy with this last bit, or sitting on it whilst I do chapter two so I have an idea on how long an update will actually take. People rather like monthly updates is my feel ( I know I do). If it's going to take me two months to do a chapter it might be better to know in advance. Thoughts?

I'm the last person who can advise on what makes for a good release schedule. Lol. We may finish some stuff and ask ourselves, "Why sit on this till these other things are done." So we release it even though it's only about fifteen minutes of gameplay. Other times, we wait until we have three or four scenes done and drop those at once. I think monthly updates are what people are accustomed to, but in the end, I think deep down they are happy with any game that is actually seeing progress be it large or small.

We have players who hate our update schedule, but they keep coming back and keep playing because even though they dislike the intervals, they love our product. They gripe about how small the release is, and then turn around and praise how good it was. I think in the end, just do what you're comfortable with and if the quality is there, people will still line up.

You sound like you suffer the same achilles heel as I do, constant rewrites. Based on what you've told me, I would advise against waiting for Chapter 2 to be done. Only because once it's finished, you'll find something in Chapter 1 you'll want to rewrite. And then after you're updated Chapter 1, you'll think of something to add in Chapter 2, and the vicious cycle will continue.

I have a personal rule, that is very hard at times, that I am only allowed to rewrite something once. I do my first draft, and then I do my second. Any additional rewrites must come after the story is finished. This way, I know what happens at every stage of the story and can then go back and make Chapter 1 as strong as possible, and so on and so forth. Without that rule, I'd rewrite forever...

I do like the verbal descriptions instead of a slider or bar to measure relationship status. It's brilliant. With your permission I might borrow that idea for a later project.

Screen shots look amazing though. I can't wait to see what you've come up with!

 

[Nottravis]

Thank you so much for all of that. At this rate you'll be credited as "official muse" ;P

You sound like you suffer the same achilles heel as I do, constant rewrites. Based on what you've told me, I would advise against waiting for Chapter 2 to be done. Only because once it's finished, you'll find something in Chapter 1 you'll want to rewrite. And then after you're updated Chapter 1, you'll think of something to add in Chapter 2, and the vicious cycle will continue.

Damn. You've caught me. Yep, this is it entirely. To be fair to me none of the main story line has changed, but I do keep adding smaller scenes or little tweaks especially to some of the dialogue as I get to "know" the characters better.

I have a personal rule, that is very hard at times, that I am only allowed to rewrite something once. I do my first draft, and then I do my second. Any additional rewrites must come after the story is finished. This way, I know what happens at every stage of the story and can then go back and make Chapter 1 as strong as possible, and so on and so forth. Without that rule, I'd rewrite forever...

That is a bloody brilliant rule! Stolen and now used!

I do like the verbal descriptions instead of a slider or bar to measure relationship status. It's brilliant. With your permission I might borrow that idea for a later project..

Borrow away! Seems only fair!

Screen shots look amazing though. I can't wait to see what you've come up with!

Far too kind!

Alright, so my plan is to see if I can get a sophisticated verbal description going, if not I'll fall back on a more simplified version although still verbal. Then it's a few sound effects and some music and it's done. I'm going to release it in time for Christmas regardless I think, else I'll still be working on it this time next year

 

[Nottravis]

And just the music to go!

 

[johnconnor]

Do you have someone to help you proofread?

 

[Nottravis]

Do you have someone to help you proofread?

That's kind of you to offer.

Yep, a few friends of mine who have play tested it have (hopefully!) picked up most of my errors already.