VN Ren'Py The Gilded Ladder [v0.1.4] [Sanguineangie]

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Beast Within

Member
Nov 9, 2017
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@Beast Within, @HUNUTAN - The switch you asked for has been added and impacts what you see/do not see.
First of all Merry Christmas, or happy holidays (if you are not religious), best of health and fortune for you and your loved ones.

on the topic, that is a great change and its perfect you implemented it.
I have three questions if I may.

first one is, by switching the gay/trans content off, have you alternate scenes to keep the content ratio intact or the scenes just dont appear?
second question is if you have it off, it makes the content skippable ( you dont see it but happens in the background/is refferenced in dialogues/implied) or is it completely avoidable (never happens/ never implied even in convo)

and my third is are you planning to do this for the other "controversial" tags as well ( switch or options)? I am masking because if you plan to, which is great, it would mmemman a very very heavy workload on your shoulders. I am not saying that you wont manage, but still, I have seen it happen many times before, for devs to be boggled down in too many tags.

on another topic, for better quality you may consider intel or Nvidia denoisers ( I believe the intel has been seen to be a bit better) it removes grain and "fireflies" from your render and it gives pretty good results.

thank you for your time and again happy holidays
 

sanguineangie

Newbie
Game Developer
Apr 24, 2021
49
221
First of all Merry Christmas, or happy holidays (if you are not religious), best of health and fortune for you and your loved ones.

on the topic, that is a great change and its perfect you implemented it.
I have three questions if I may.
Merry Christmas to you and your fam! Fine to answer questions, that is what I am here for!

first one is, by switching the gay/trans content off, have you alternate scenes to keep the content ratio intact or the scenes just dont appear?
The scenes do not appear as of this moment. My plan is to keep a ratio of roughly 1:1:3 trans:gay:straight sexual opportunities. So if someone wants to have a straight encounter, 60% of content will be available. I think it would be a lot of work for me to, lets say, have both a cis and trans version of Chrissy. Not sure I have seen an AVN that did such an option. If that is what you are interesting in seeing, I would appreciate if you had a game in mind that did this, so I can get an idea of how they impemented it.

second question is if you have it off, it makes the content skippable ( you dont see it but happens in the background/is refferenced in dialogues/implied) or is it completely avoidable (never happens/ never implied even in convo)
Right now, it is blocked completely not skippable. For instance, if you turn of MtF content in Preferences, you will not peek in the stall at all and potentially notice Chrissy is trans.

and my third is are you planning to do this for the other "controversial" tags as well ( switch or options)? I am masking because if you plan to, which is great, it would mmemman a very very heavy workload on your shoulders. I am not saying that you wont manage, but still, I have seen it happen many times before, for devs to be boggled down in too many tags.
I could do it for any controversial tags. Could you give me an example of what tags are controversial other than trans and gay? It seems that NTR has been controversial based on some of the comments, but I didn't list that.

on another topic, for better quality you may consider intel or Nvidia denoisers ( I believe the intel has been seen to be a bit better) it removes grain and "fireflies" from your render and it gives pretty good results.
I use intel denoiser and wrote a script to do a batch process. You can see what I am doing in discord. I think a lot of it is simply potato GPU, which I plan to upgrade.



The images look a lot better than they did. My patreon page shows a nice comparison.



thank you for your time and again happy holidays
Thanks again, Happy New Year! Love receiving constructive feedback and responding.
 

Beast Within

Member
Nov 9, 2017
476
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almost change of the year here where i am so in case I am not around I wish you and the rest a happy new year and best of wishes for all of your dreams to come true!

I will try to go portion by portion to answer, if I miss something let me know.

The scenes do not appear as of this moment. My plan is to keep a ratio of roughly 1:1:3 trans:gay:straight sexual opportunities. So if someone wants to have a straight encounter, 60% of content will be available. I think it would be a lot of work for me to, lets say, have both a cis and trans version of Chrissy. Not sure I have seen an AVN that did such an option. If that is what you are interesting in seeing, I would appreciate if you had a game in mind that did this, so I can get an idea of how they impemented it.
plenty of games do that actually, prime example is summertime saga where you have a li be either trans or straight woman, also I think wvm ( I think I got the name right) where one of the main lis is either a trans or a girl again with alternate immages and dialogues. many also do the same thing for lesbian content like for example my all time favorite vn whenever I advise devs on how to handle lesbian content. "give the power to the player just like the dev in Grandma's House". many new devs follow this and although IT IS extra hard work, it keeps more players satisfied giving them the power to allow or deny the girls to interact. I cant think of other games on the top of my head but I am sure some helpful folk in the thread might add to the lsit of devs who put alternate images to blocked content, keeping the game at 100% whatever the players choise is, either in game or through a menu switch. as I said, it is extra workload.

Right now, it is blocked completely not skippable. For instance, if you turn of MtF content in Preferences, you will not peek in the stall at all and potentially notice Chrissy is trans.
From what I understand it doesnt change the fact though that Chrissy keeps being a trans although you dont know about it which basically should be covered by the switch. meaning, that if you turn trans content off, she should either not appear at all as a character, or, she is a woman and not a trans. Apologies my english are not the best.

I could do it for any controversial tags. Could you give me an example of what tags are controversial other than trans and gay? It seems that NTR has been controversial based on some of the comments, but I didn't list that.
controversial tags ( at least for me) are, ntr-netorare/netorase, swinging, sharing, whoring, prostitution, lesbian and voyuer.

when it comes to ntr/swinging/sharing and whoring I avoid the games even if it is stated that the content is avoidable. for the rest I may or may not follow a game depending if the content is avoidable ( not just skippable) or not.

to clarify although I am sure you know, avoidable means it never happens/is stopped whereas skippable eans you skip the scene buit it still happens in the background. you just dont see it.
generally speaking avoidable is universaly accepted whereas skippable is considered a waste of time.

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I use intel denoiser and wrote a script to do a batch process. You can see what I am doing in discord. I think a lot of it is simply potato GPU, which I plan to upgrade.
I am not really a tech savant to be honest. my gpu is a 1080ti but I have seen people pull renders of exceptional quality with lesser gpus ( although they also use post production as well ie photoshop or similar software). from what I know its mostly vram that is important and how you set your render settings. ofcourse rendering time is higher with lower end gpus and in no way am I saying that you can make miracles with a potato gpu :D
at the end of the day, true, you will only bennefit from better hardware. fully agree on that.

thank you for taking the time to give me such a detailed answer. may you always be in the best of health
 
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gregers

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From what I understand it doesnt change the fact though that Chrissy keeps being a trans although you dont know about it which basically should be covered by the switch. meaning, that if you turn trans content off, she should either not appear at all as a character, or, she is a woman and not a trans. Apologies my english are not the best.
That's not a reasonable request. The switch means you won't encounter sexual content with trans women, not that trans people don't exist. If Chrissy is just a work colleague whom you'll never have sexual interactions with, what does it matter what's between her legs?
 

Fazed

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Nov 21, 2018
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, she should either not appear at all as a character, or, she is a woman and not a trans. Apologies my english are not the best.
I don't think that's a reasonable request. That's adding way more dev time than was planned for(I'm assuming). Having the toggle exclude this character from being a LI should be enough. She may be story relevant but for a player that isnt interested in that content she would just be there for story appearance and nothing else. That functional as a toggle and doesn't wreck the story without much additional work being needed.
 

Beast Within

Member
Nov 9, 2017
476
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That's not a reasonable request. The switch means you won't encounter sexual content with trans women, not that trans people don't exist. If Chrissy is just a work colleague whom you'll never have sexual interactions with, what does it matter what's between her legs?
if the switch is there to remove trans content what does it matter if she becomes another li that players that dont want "what is between a trans legs", can pursue? btw it wasnt a request or anything. just a question about clarification.

I don't think that's a reasonable request. Thats adding way more dev time than was planned for(I'm assuming). Having the toggle exclude this character from being a LI should be enough. She may be story relevant but for a player that isnt interested in that content she would just be there for story appearance and nothing else. That functional as a toggle and doesn't wreck the story without much additional work being needed.
it was not a request basically. that paragraph is mostly linked with the first one about alternate versions ( and a bit with the next one about games that had similar content and how they treated it.)
perhaps I used wrong wording. my bad.
in short, in my experience from this kind of switches, when it is activated, trans turns to either romancable lis with alternate renders or are excluded as a li, meaning she is not romancable but still in the game as an npc ( because of the switch) . Furthermore, nothing about her sexuality is mentioned. you will never encounter a dialogue where she states she is trans or anything similar if you have the switch off.
I hope I did a better job explaining what I ment though I wouldnt count on it :D
 
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Fazed

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if the switch is there to remove trans content what does it matter if she becomes another li that players that dont want "what is between a trans legs", can pursue? btw it wasnt a request or anything. just a question about clarification.



it was not a request basically. that paragraph is mostly linked with the first one about alternate versions ( and a bit with the next one about games that had similar content and how they treated it.)
perhaps I used wrong wording. my bad.
in short, in my experience from this kind of switches, when it is activated, trans turns to either romancable lis with alternate renders or are excluded as a li, meaning she is not romancable but still in the game as an npc ( because of the switch) nothing about her sexuality is mentioned. you will never encounter a dialogue where she states she is trans or anything similar if you have the switch off.
I hope I did a better job explaining what I ment though I wouldnt count on it :D
Oh ok. my mistake (y)
 
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Beast Within

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It matters because that would require more renders. Just saying.:)
true. it was the first thing I mentioned even in my first post. I know how hard a work it is, hence why I also asked about "other controversial tags" if you noticed. ;)
 
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Fazed

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true. it was the first thing I mentioned even in my first post. I know how hard a work it is, hence why I also asked about "other controversial tags" if you noticed. ;)
Yep went back and read it. I hope a certain controversial tag doesnt show up. But judging by how the dev responded and the length of the planned tag section already, surely that means it wont be an issue.
 

Fazed

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Nov 21, 2018
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sanguineangie
:unsure:
Is the planned sissification content for the MC or is it for another character in the story? I'm assuming that will be a separate toggle option as well, if it's for the MC? To elaborate, I can deal with a little femdom for fun, but that would be too much for my liking.
 
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Aug 15, 2022
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I'm getting the impression that this game actually is not intended to be played by gay men, and it would make more sense to simply remove the gay option entirely so gay men like me don't download it expecting it to be a viable option when it really isn't. Even after an update that supposedly makes the experience more gay-friendly, that scene is barely any different and the new content doesn't take it into account whatsoever. I imagine it would make it both less work for the dev and less frustrating for gay players to simply remove the option and accept that gay men aren't the intended audience.
 

gregers

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Dec 9, 2018
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I'm getting the impression that this game actually is not intended to be played by gay men, and it would make more sense to simply remove the gay option entirely so gay men like me don't download it expecting it to be a viable option when it really isn't. Even after an update that supposedly makes the experience more gay-friendly, that scene is barely any different and the new content doesn't take it into account whatsoever. I imagine it would make it both less work for the dev and less frustrating for gay players to simply remove the option and accept that gay men aren't the intended audience.
Since the majority of the content (per the dev above) will be straight (and cis), with some gay (and trans) options to leaven the mixture, I think it's more targeted towards a bi/flexible audience. Playing it purely for the gay content would likely be a somewhat hollow experience.

Man that was the smallest update lol, one BJ scene and over
Shorter if you didnt fuck with the prostitute.

Then the whole update It's about 10-11 clicks if you "say nothing" to her.
This game has potential but if each update is gonna be this little content each time it will probably be end of 2024 before we get a decent amount of game lol
If I understood the dev's earlier comments correctly, this release is primarily intended as an adjustment of the previously released content in response to criticism with a few extra renders thrown in. Actual meaningful new content to follow in v. 0.2, "soon".
 

sanguineangie

Newbie
Game Developer
Apr 24, 2021
49
221
First off, thanks to Beast Within and Fazed for resolving any possible drama. Glad to see the misunderstandings ironed out.

almost change of the year here where i am so in case I am not around I wish you and the rest a happy new year and best of wishes for all of your dreams to come true!

I will try to go portion by portion to answer, if I miss something let me know.

plenty of games do that actually, prime example is summertime saga where you have a li be either trans or straight woman, also I think wvm ( I think I got the name right) where one of the main lis is either a trans or a girl again with alternate immages and dialogues. many also do the same thing for lesbian content like for example my all time favorite vn whenever I advise devs on how to handle lesbian content. "give the power to the player just like the dev in Grandma's House". many new devs follow this and although IT IS extra hard work, it keeps more players satisfied giving them the power to allow or deny the girls to interact. I cant think of other games on the top of my head but I am sure some helpful folk in the thread might add to the lsit of devs who put alternate images to blocked content, keeping the game at 100% whatever the players choise is, either in game or through a menu switch. as I said, it is extra workload.

From what I understand it doesnt change the fact though that Chrissy keeps being a trans although you dont know about it which basically should be covered by the switch. meaning, that if you turn trans content off, she should either not appear at all as a character, or, she is a woman and not a trans. Apologies my english are not the best.

controversial tags ( at least for me) are, ntr-netorare/netorase, swinging, sharing, whoring, prostitution, lesbian and voyuer.

when it comes to ntr/swinging/sharing and whoring I avoid the games even if it is stated that the content is avoidable. for the rest I may or may not follow a game depending if the content is avoidable ( not just skippable) or not.

to clarify although I am sure you know, avoidable means it never happens/is stopped whereas skippable eans you skip the scene buit it still happens in the background. you just dont see it.
generally speaking avoidable is universaly accepted whereas skippable is considered a waste of time.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I am not really a tech savant to be honest. my gpu is a 1080ti but I have seen people pull renders of exceptional quality with lesser gpus ( although they also use post production as well ie photoshop or similar software). from what I know its mostly vram that is important and how you set your render settings. ofcourse rendering time is higher with lower end gpus and in no way am I saying that you can make miracles with a potato gpu :D
at the end of the day, true, you will only bennefit from better hardware. fully agree on that.

thank you for taking the time to give me such a detailed answer. may you always be in the best of health
I try to be very responsive to those willing to give my game a go, so, thank you!

So, there are two challenges related to having a single character that can be either cis or trans.
  1. Moral - turning a character designed to be trans into a cis character could come off as trans erasure. I am not by any means super woke, but they exist, and I wouldn't want to change a character and erase their being entirely. Not saying you would, just addressing anyone that may ask this question.
  2. Technical - summertime saga is great, but they also have a less challenging time in terms of it is a change of a character drawing overlayed on a static background. I would have to re-render every NSFW scene, and it wouldn't just be a change in anatomy, the poses and everything would be different based on the type of pentration likely changing.
For the controversial tags, I can add more switches... I don't think that would be a big challenge. Glad to add what you have listed as switches once I incorporate any of those kinks.

And yes, the switches completely block the encounter.

Appreciate the details on NTR.

Yeah, I have a super potato GPU with the rest of my system being amazing, and I am getting better at rendering. Maybe I need to do more prost-prcoessing beyond denoise.

sanguineangie
:unsure:
Is the planned sissification content for the MC or is it for another character in the story? I'm assuming that will be a separate toggle option as well, if it's for the MC? To elaborate, I can deal with a little femdom for fun, but that would be too much for my liking.
Planned sissification is for another character. It will not be a toggle option, but a choice in the story if it happens.

Man that was the smallest update lol, one BJ scene and over
It felt like a lot for me :)

The changelog does accurately represent what happened. I spent most of my effort cleaning up previous scenes and making more transition scenes. I promise, collectively, v0.2 will have a lot more. But all the feedback I have received has implied that updating frequently is better than big updates where I am not delivering anything for months on end. I tend to prefer a more 'agile' approach versus 'waterfall'.

Shorter if you didnt fuck with the prostitute.

Then the whole update It's about 10-11 clicks if you "say nothing" to her.
Correct. The prostitute was mostly me testing out doing a NSFW scene without messing it up with one of the main characters, as it was my first time doing a NSFW scene between more than one character.

This game has potential but if each update is gonna be this little content each time it will probably be end of 2024 before we get a decent amount of game lol
Most of my Patreon members vastly sided with frequent updates and to post them on F95.

I'm getting the impression that this game actually is not intended to be played by gay men, and it would make more sense to simply remove the gay option entirely so gay men like me don't download it expecting it to be a viable option when it really isn't. Even after an update that supposedly makes the experience more gay-friendly, that scene is barely any different and the new content doesn't take it into account whatsoever. I imagine it would make it both less work for the dev and less frustrating for gay players to simply remove the option and accept that gay men aren't the intended audience.
This is a fair point, gsm14347 . Honestly, I am sorry it has taken as long. The daydream scene is not enough. I promise that a gay sex scene with penetration will be in v0.2 when it is released.

I started playing a few gay AVNs to get an idea of what may be of interest, so I can do the scenario some justice and get a better idea of what gay gamers are possibly looking for. If you have interest, please reach out to me and let me know your thoughts, would love to hear from you specifically.
 
Aug 15, 2022
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This is a fair point, gsm14347 . Honestly, I am sorry it has taken as long. The daydream scene is not enough. I promise that a gay sex scene with penetration will be in v0.2 when it is released.

I started playing a few gay AVNs to get an idea of what may be of interest, so I can do the scenario some justice and get a better idea of what gay gamers are possibly looking for. If you have interest, please reach out to me and let me know your thoughts, would love to hear from you specifically.
It's not what isn't there so much as what is there. The story lends itself to a believably straight or bisexual MC, but not to a believably gay MC, because the MC clearly exhibits interest in women in his internal dialogue irrespective of your choices. There seems to be a rather common belief among straight people that gay men are sexually attracted to women but prefer men -- this is not at all the case and that would be a bisexual person. Gay men simply are not attracted to women, and would not express interest, whether in internal or external dialogue.
 
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