Patreon Is Hardening Their 'Adult Content' Guidelines. Discussion Thread

ASLPro3D

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Sep 16, 2017
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@UnawareWorld, as @MrKnobb mentioned, we were examined by Patreon regarding the rape scene (and incest) that we had in our game "Wicked Choices: Book One"... while we made no reference about the subject matter in our game on Patreon, some of the Patrons saw fit to report the content to Patreon... so don't think by not mentioning it, that it will stay unnoticed... there are always those out there who view themselves as SJW and will feel the need to report you.

In my case, we were briefly shut down (think it was a total of two hours) while they spoke with us and tried our game. After a brief explanation about our rape scene, as well as, the incest content, they turned us back on and suffered no further problem.

The best I can suggest to you is to be sure the reason of why what you have in your game is in it... if it is for the sake of pounding the pud, particularly if it is rape (particularly in the midst of the MeToo movement) then there is a good chance that your game will get banned and you will lose your money and time spent building your game for everyone.

As @MrKnobb suggested, removing it from the game and adding it as a patch that is available to download from here or elsewhere is the best way to be sure that your game won't get banned for having rape or incest content if it is for FAPPING reasons that it is in the game... and be sure NOT to mention where people can acquire that patch (or that it even exists) on Patreon... don't worry, people will find it.
 

gamersglory

Render Runner
Donor
Game Developer
Aug 23, 2017
664
900
Buy me a coffee has added banning of adult content to there TOS
If we did any patches they would be on Lawdpatcher.com not on this site. The main thing is though that you can't put trigger words on your Patreon. Mastercard probably uses G2 scanning on there site now
 

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Dec 10, 2018
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I see, thanks for clearing that up for me. I really appreciate it.

Well, rape is an "optional" content, since game is choice-based, so theoretically you can avoid it entirely, if you choose wisely, but removing it all will pretty much ruin the plot, so meh...
 

Heartlessnobody95

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Apr 27, 2017
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Yeah this new round of puritanical bullshit is even worse than the salem witch trials. At least there the girls could run around naked. Here we are fucking paying Patreon and they are kicking people off like FOW retroactively. They also are going after subscribestar. This is fucking bullshit.
 

OhWee

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Jun 17, 2017
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Joy.

Subscribestar was looking promising, so I'll be interested in seeing what they work out payment wise.


Of course, I'm more interested in anonymous CCs, because with those you can limit your exposure, but Paypal didn't lke those in the first place... The big thing is do you TRUST that person/company that you just gave your CC info, and maybe more info on top of that too.

Yeah, there's the 'coin' thing, but that market is more volatile than a school of piranhas sometimes, and some of us like actual bonafide cash money... note the 'crash' of the graphics card market, which is good if you are looking for cheap graphics cards right now (not just the used ones on Ebay, but also the new ones that have dropped in price/are on sale), but not so good for the coin miners.
 

HiEv

Active Member
Sep 1, 2017
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Yeah this new round of puritanical bullshit is even worse than the salem witch trials.
Umm... No. Innocent people were killed during the Salem witch trials. This is merely removing one or two places where some people can raise money. That isn't even remotely close to being as bad killing innocents due to a superstitious freak-out over nothing.

Also, what's going on isn't entirely "puritanical" in nature. Some of it definitely is, yes, but some of it is also due to people on the other side of the aisle trying to remove any perceived support for bigotry or hate speech from their businesses.

Businesses have a right to choose which content they provide, as long as they don't base who they get it from or give it to purely upon bigotry. That said, the market should be fully capable of picking up the slack that other companies want to give them by dumping certain customers, though it may take a little while for those other businesses to carve out that niche for themselves. In the mean time, unfortunately, some innocents may get hung out to dry, and that sucks.
 

Heartlessnobody95

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Apr 27, 2017
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Umm... No. Innocent people were killed during the Salem witch trials. This is merely removing one or two places where some people can raise money. That isn't even remotely close to being as bad killing innocents due to a superstitious freak-out over nothing.

Also, what's going on isn't entirely "puritanical" in nature. Some of it definitely is, yes, but some of it is also due to people on the other side of the aisle trying to remove any perceived support for bigotry or hate speech from their businesses.

Businesses have a right to choose which content they provide, as long as they don't base who they get it from or give it to purely upon bigotry. That said, the market should be fully capable of picking up the slack that other companies want to give them by dumping certain customers, though it may take a little while for those other businesses to carve out that niche for themselves. In the mean time, unfortunately, some innocents may get hung out to dry, and that sucks.
Hyperbole is lost on you.

“other side of the isle”?

I don’t give a fuck why they removed Sargon of Akkad.
But when they kicked FOW I knew this was some PC bullshit. Adult Content makes up nearly a quarter of patreons income. However they won’t kick off the camwhores and e-girls because that’s “sexist”.
I am not calling for them to be removed but I want consistency instead of the “bigotry” this platform is pushing. But obviously they won’t do that because it’s “disrespecting wamen” and against their narrative.

“One or two”? Do you even know how many patreon competitors have been run out of buisiness because they didn’t follow patreons ideological slant? This is a forced monopoly thanks to paypal and stripes collusion.
 

Pantisocrat

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Jul 3, 2017
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I am not calling for them to be removed but I want consistency instead of the “bigotry” this platform is pushing.
You must be registered to see images


To be clear, I don't like a lot of Patreon's decisions in this vein. But I'm telling you now, agitating for 'consistency', especially according to some weird moral-agnostic conception of 'consistency' will never, ever achieve anything except getting more people banned. It will never get fewer people banned or anybody unbanned. This 'demanding consistency' is functionally just a call for more bans.

And maybe you'll say you care more about consistency than about bans. Fair enough, but I couldn't disagree more.
 

HiEv

Active Member
Sep 1, 2017
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Hyperbole is lost on you.
It actually comes from interacting with too many people who would say that not as hyperbole, but mean it literally.

But when they kicked FOW
I don't recognize who you're referring to by that abbreviation. I might know them by the full name, but not well enough to recognize it abbreviated like that.

I knew this was some PC bullshit.
"Puritanical" and "PC" are rather opposite ends of the "reasons to reject something" spectrum. If you're being "puritanical" you're rejecting things for bigoted religious reasons. If you're being "PC" then you're rejecting things because you see them as bigoted and/or harming particular groups of people.

Adult Content makes up nearly a quarter of patreons income. However they won’t kick off the camwhores and e-girls because that’s “sexist”.
I'm curious as to your definition of a "camwhores" or "e-girls", since some of the people whom I've seen described as that were merely attractive women who happened to have large breasts, but were otherwise doing the exact same things men on the platform did. An example or two would help.

I am not calling for them to be removed but I want consistency instead of the “bigotry” this platform is pushing.
I can't respond to this until I know what examples you're comparing this to, but I'd hazard a guess that they aren't the same thing.

But obviously they won’t do that because it’s “disrespecting wamen” and against their narrative.
:rolleyes:

You make yourself rather hard to take seriously when you say things like that.

“One or two”? Do you even know how many patreon competitors have been run out of buisiness because they didn’t follow patreons ideological slant?
Apparently not. Care to actually clue me in, rather than merely insulting me?

This is a forced monopoly thanks to paypal and stripes collusion.
That's nothing more than a conspiracy theory at this point, nowhere near a fact.

If you have verifiable evidence of collusion, not merely facts which you're assuming are connected, I'd love to hear it.

Have a nice day! :)
 

Heartlessnobody95

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Apr 27, 2017
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To be clear, I don't like a lot of Patreon's decisions in this vein. But I'm telling you now, agitating for 'consistency', especially according to some weird moral-agnostic conception of 'consistency' will never, ever achieve anything except getting more people banned. It will never get fewer people banned or anybody unbanned. This 'demanding consistency' is functionally just a call for more bans.

And maybe you'll say you care more about consistency than about bans. Fair enough, but I couldn't disagree more.
See but if they were consistent then I could just say they were assholes but that's how they want to police their platform then I can accept it. But since they not consistent with their actions then I have to consider there is intent behind their actions.

It actually comes from interacting with too many people who would say that not as hyperbole, but mean it literally.


I don't recognize who you're referring to by that abbreviation. I might know them by the full name, but not well enough to recognize it abbreviated like that.


"Puritanical" and "PC" are rather opposite ends of the "reasons to reject something" spectrum. If you're being "puritanical" you're rejecting things for bigoted religious reasons. If you're being "PC" then you're rejecting things because you see them as bigoted and/or harming particular groups of people.


I'm curious as to your definition of a "camwhores" or "e-girls", since some of the people whom I've seen described as that were merely attractive women who happened to have large breasts, but were otherwise doing the exact same things men on the platform did. An example or two would help.


I can't respond to this until I know what examples you're comparing this to, but I'd hazard a guess that they aren't the same thing.


:rolleyes:

You make yourself rather hard to take seriously when you say things like that.


Apparently not. Care to actually clue me in, rather than merely insulting me?


That's nothing more than a conspiracy theory at this point, nowhere near a fact.

If you have verifiable evidence of collusion, not merely facts which you're assuming are connected, I'd love to hear it.

Have a nice day! :)
Ah yes. This was hyperbole on purpose. Not accidentally hyperbole and exaggeration that some people are perchance to abuse.

Studio F.O.W. is a giant within the adult animation sphere on the internet. They have some incredible animations involving horses :p More information .

I am not arguing their reasoning. I am arguing their actions are similar with respect to how they made a "purge" of creators on their site.

This was aimed specifically at people who hide pornographic content behind a paywall on patreon. Female streamers such as Amouranth and Clarababylegs are high profile examples of this.

This is not to throw them under the bus as I believe they should have the right to produce whatever content they want. However I find it disturbing that they can produce the same "adult oriented content" and not have any problems. but on the other hand,
Patreon has a history of screwing with the adult game creators. Just look at the way they handled banning incest (which was never included in their terms of service as a violation) and shutting down patreons that had incest in their games. (Fucking Summertime Saga is an incest game.)

If you don't understand this line about "wamen" then you don't understand the ecosystem of a major part of the internet.

Businesses have a right to choose which content they provide, as long as they don't base who they get it from or give it to purely upon bigotry. That said, the market should be fully capable of picking up the slack that other companies want to give them by dumping certain customers, though it may take a little while for those other businesses to carve out that niche for themselves. In the mean time, unfortunately, some innocents may get hung out to dry, and that sucks.

You asserted that this should be acceptable due to economic market forces without knowledge that the actions of these companies are detrimental to a free and open market. This is not natural capitalism at work. Your ignorance of these matters is not a fault but your assertion that "the market should be fully capable of picking up the slack" is questionable given this statement about the digital marketplace.
That's nothing more than a conspiracy theory at this point, nowhere near a fact.
Bitchute-Competitor to Youtube. Refused services by patreon, and both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe
Gab-Competitor to Twitter. Refused services by patreon, and both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe.
Subscribestar- Competitor to Patreon. Refused services by both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe.
Makersupport- Competitor to Patreon. Refused services by both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe.
Hatreon- Competitor to Patreon. Refused services by both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe. Instigated by VISA

Any competitor to established tech companies are being discriminated against by both payment processors.
Though I do not have the legal documents required to prove this in court, the actions of the companies speak enough for the public to view this as collusion.

Please reconsider your stance given this new information provided.
 
Sep 6, 2018
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0
Tip: Don't waste your time responding to HiEv.
"conspiracy theory"
"If you have verifiable evidence of collusion, not merely facts which you're assuming are connected, I'd love to hear it."
"You make yourself rather hard to take seriously when you say things like that."

I'm surprised he hasn't started accusing people of being russians.
 

Heartlessnobody95

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Apr 27, 2017
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Tip: Don't waste your time responding to HiEv.
"conspiracy theory"
"If you have verifiable evidence of collusion, not merely facts which you're assuming are connected, I'd love to hear it."
"You make yourself rather hard to take seriously when you say things like that."

I'm surprised he hasn't started accusing people of being russians.
I don’t know him so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes people are fed so much bullshit they think it’s the truth. I know I was like that once.
 

HiEv

Active Member
Sep 1, 2017
286
338
Tip: Don't waste your time responding to HiEv.
So, this is how you introduce yourself to the forum? By insulting people and being against open discussion of opposing viewpoints?

Oooo-kaaaayy..... Not a promising start.

Not surprising that you took out all of the context around that.

Referring to a supposed "collusion" between Patreon and PayPal + Stripe, I said:
That's nothing more than a conspiracy theory at this point, nowhere near a fact.
Yes. A conspiracy theory. Something which even some people who want that to be true admit that this "theory" is:
You must be registered to see medias

See for example 7:54, 8:15, 14:44, etc...

This is literally a theory that companies are conspiring together, without any actual evidence that this is true. If you know of a better phrase for that than "conspiracy theory", I'd love to hear it.

Note that I'm not claiming that it isn't or can't be true, I'm just saying that there isn't sufficient evidence to conclude that it is true at this point, thus we shouldn't act as though it's true.

There's nothing irrational about that stance.

"If you have verifiable evidence of collusion, not merely facts which you're assuming are connected, I'd love to hear it."
Ah yes. Asking for clear evidence, as opposed to merely correlations followed by jumping to conclusions. How irrational of me. :rolleyes:

FYI, .

"You make yourself rather hard to take seriously when you say things like that."
And again, that was in the context of responding to Heartlessnobody95 saying:
Heartlessnobody95 said:
But obviously they won’t do that because it’s “disrespecting wamen” and against their narrative.
This is utterly absurd nonsense, suggesting that they don't remove women, not because they haven't actually done anything wrong, but because they don't want to look like misogynists.

I'm sorry, but sending nudes to patrons is totally allowed under their terms of service. On the other hand, hate speech is a violation of their terms of services.

Pretending the two are equivalent alone is absurd, pretending they "let the women get away with it" due to feared backlash or whatever just raises this to lunacy.

Hence my inability to take anyone seriously who thinks that this is even remotely a viable argument.

I'm surprised he hasn't started accusing people of being russians.
What?!? LOL. No. That would be the opposite of what I'm doing here. Aren't you paying attention?

Wild claims made without evidence are the problem I'm pointing out. Why on Earth do you think I would then commit that error myself?

(shakes head)

So, do you have any actual arguments, or are you merely here to baselessly insult me?

--

Ah yes. This was hyperbole on purpose. Not accidentally hyperbole and exaggeration that some people are perchance to abuse.
I wasn't referring to "accidental hyperbole", I was referring to the idiots that think that witches are real and deserved to be hung in Salem.

If you haven't encountered that particular brand of lunacy, consider yourself lucky. :p

Studio F.O.W. is a giant within the adult animation sphere on the internet. They have some incredible animations involving horses :p More information .
They were also apparently asked repeatedly to take certain material off of their Patreon page by Patreon, which they would do, and then put back up a few days later. They apparently also got a "cease and desist" letter from Blizzard regarding their "Coliseum of Lust" video. In their FAQ on getting booted from Patreon they say, twice, "we saw this coming from a million miles away".

One thing their FAQ does not say is exactly what they got booted for, which, based on the above, could have been for a couple of reasons.

It's really hard to determine anything without more information, but it sounds like they knew that they were doing something which violated Patreon's terms.

This was aimed specifically at people who hide pornographic content behind a paywall on patreon. Female streamers such as Amouranth and Clarababylegs are high profile examples of this.
As I mentioned above, there's nothing against Patreon's terms of service for that.

And since StudioFOW hasn't said why they were booted from Patreon, you can't just assume hypocrisy. It's possible that they got booted for their repeated postings of sexually suggestive content on Patreon's site or for possible copyright violations. We don't know, thus it's all mere speculation at this point.

If you don't understand this line about "wamen" then you don't understand the ecosystem of a major part of the internet.
I understand it, but your whole argument there just undermines your credibility, as I explained above.

You asserted that this should be acceptable due to economic market forces
No, I didn't. I asserted that this should be acceptable because companies have a right to control their own content.

I also noted that, if there's a market for the content that gets booted off one platform, inevitably someone else will take advantage of the profit that Patreon gave up on.

You accused me of ignorance, but that was based upon a straw man of my actual point.

Bitchute-Competitor to Youtube. Refused services by patreon, and both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe
Actually, BitChute had been using PayPal up until recently, but PayPal terminated them for violations of their policy. ( ) Unfortunately no details on what was specifically violated though.

Similarly, they had been working with Stripe, but Stripe apparently said that the reason that they had to drop BitChute "is a restriction imposed upon us directly from our financial partners" ( ). This suggests (to me, at least) that the banking and credit card groups are the ones applying the pressure here.

As for Patreon, they were refused services for providing a platform to people Patreon had banned. ( & ) They didn't want to indirectly support the same people they'd already refused to support.

So, it looks like it's a variety of reasons.

Gab-Competitor to Twitter. Refused services by patreon, and both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe.
Let's not expand this beyond competitors to Patreon.

Subscribestar- Competitor to Patreon. Refused services by both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe.
This is the only one where there might be a case, but there just isn't enough information to say yet.

Makersupport- Competitor to Patreon. Refused services by both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe.
MakerSupport supported alt-right and , including . It doesn't take a conspiracy to figure out why they got canned.

Hatreon- Competitor to Patreon. Refused services by both internet payment processors, Paypay and Stripe. Instigated by VISA
...and supported hate groups and hate speech too. Seriously, it's right in their name.

You don't need a conspiracy to figure out where Hatreon went wrong.

Also, the fact that most payment processors have similar policies, means that if one refuses service, then others are likely to as well because that means they violated their policies as well. This isn't "collusion" it's simply similar outcomes due to similar policies.

Any competitor to established tech companies are being discriminated against by both payment processors.
You seem to want to extrapolate from "some" to "any". That's a bit of a stretch there.

One only need see that there are major competitors out there in the crowdfunding arena, like , , and , to see that that's not the case.

Though I do not have the legal documents required to prove this in court, the actions of the companies speak enough for the public to view this as collusion.
Yeah, well, some of "the public" view 9/11 as an "inside job", so that doesn't mean much. Just because you think you see something, doesn't mean that it's really there.

This is why I only accept clear verifiable evidence, not wild speculation based on correlations that may mean something else entirely and can be explained much more mundanely.

Please reconsider your stance given this new information provided.
What new "information"? That's not information, that's just speculation regarding collusion based upon an illusory correlation.

Provide me with some actual information and I'll gladly reconsider my stance, but this looks more like a guy stringing yarn across pushpins to support his crazy conspiracy theory than anything resembling actual information.
 

TowerCrow

Member
Donor
Nov 22, 2018
26
34
I don’t give a fuck why they removed Sargon of Akkad.
But when they kicked FOW I knew this was some PC bullshit. Adult Content makes up nearly a quarter of patreons income. However they won’t kick off the camwhores and e-girls because that’s “sexist”.
Yea, no. Studio FOW had a lot of chances to fix their shit. And they even did a couple of times. The simply continued to taunt Patreon right in their faces by posting content against TOS the very next day after being reinstated. It's not bullshit, it's just being arrogant and stupid hence the consequences.
 

Heartlessnobody95

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Modder
Apr 27, 2017
625
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So, this is how you introduce yourself to the forum? By insulting people and being against open discussion of opposing viewpoints?

Oooo-kaaaayy..... Not a promising start.


Not surprising that you took out all of the context around that.

Referring to a supposed "collusion" between Patreon and PayPal + Stripe, I said:

Yes. A conspiracy theory. Something which even some people who want that to be true admit that this "theory" is:
You must be registered to see medias

See for example 7:54, 8:15, 14:44, etc...

This is literally a theory that companies are conspiring together, without any actual evidence that this is true. If you know of a better phrase for that than "conspiracy theory", I'd love to hear it.

Note that I'm not claiming that it isn't or can't be true, I'm just saying that there isn't sufficient evidence to conclude that it is true at this point, thus we shouldn't act as though it's true.

There's nothing irrational about that stance.


Ah yes. Asking for clear evidence, as opposed to merely correlations followed by jumping to conclusions. How irrational of me. :rolleyes:

FYI, .


And again, that was in the context of responding to Heartlessnobody95 saying:

This is utterly absurd nonsense, suggesting that they don't remove women, not because they haven't actually done anything wrong, but because they don't want to look like misogynists.

I'm sorry, but sending nudes to patrons is totally allowed under their terms of service. On the other hand, hate speech is a violation of their terms of services.

Pretending the two are equivalent alone is absurd, pretending they "let the women get away with it" due to feared backlash or whatever just raises this to lunacy.

Hence my inability to take anyone seriously who thinks that this is even remotely a viable argument.


What?!? LOL. No. That would be the opposite of what I'm doing here. Aren't you paying attention?

Wild claims made without evidence are the problem I'm pointing out. Why on Earth do you think I would then commit that error myself?

(shakes head)

So, do you have any actual arguments, or are you merely here to baselessly insult me?

--


I wasn't referring to "accidental hyperbole", I was referring to the idiots that think that witches are real and deserved to be hung in Salem.

If you haven't encountered that particular brand of lunacy, consider yourself lucky. :p


They were also apparently asked repeatedly to take certain material off of their Patreon page by Patreon, which they would do, and then put back up a few days later. They apparently also got a "cease and desist" letter from Blizzard regarding their "Coliseum of Lust" video. In their FAQ on getting booted from Patreon they say, twice, "we saw this coming from a million miles away".

One thing their FAQ does not say is exactly what they got booted for, which, based on the above, could have been for a couple of reasons.

It's really hard to determine anything without more information, but it sounds like they knew that they were doing something which violated Patreon's terms.


As I mentioned above, there's nothing against Patreon's terms of service for that.

And since StudioFOW hasn't said why they were booted from Patreon, you can't just assume hypocrisy. It's possible that they got booted for their repeated postings of sexually suggestive content on Patreon's site or for possible copyright violations. We don't know, thus it's all mere speculation at this point.


I understand it, but your whole argument there just undermines your credibility, as I explained above.


No, I didn't. I asserted that this should be acceptable because companies have a right to control their own content.

I also noted that, if there's a market for the content that gets booted off one platform, inevitably someone else will take advantage of the profit that Patreon gave up on.

You accused me of ignorance, but that was based upon a straw man of my actual point.


Actually, BitChute had been using PayPal up until recently, but PayPal terminated them for violations of their policy. ( ) Unfortunately no details on what was specifically violated though.

Similarly, they had been working with Stripe, but Stripe apparently said that the reason that they had to drop BitChute "is a restriction imposed upon us directly from our financial partners" ( ). This suggests (to me, at least) that the banking and credit card groups are the ones applying the pressure here.

As for Patreon, they were refused services for providing a platform to people Patreon had banned. ( & ) They didn't want to indirectly support the same people they'd already refused to support.

So, it looks like it's a variety of reasons.


Let's not expand this beyond competitors to Patreon.


This is the only one where there might be a case, but there just isn't enough information to say yet.


MakerSupport supported alt-right and , including . It doesn't take a conspiracy to figure out why they got canned.


...and supported hate groups and hate speech too. Seriously, it's right in their name.

You don't need a conspiracy to figure out where Hatreon went wrong.

Also, the fact that most payment processors have similar policies, means that if one refuses service, then others are likely to as well because that means they violated their policies as well. This isn't "collusion" it's simply similar outcomes due to similar policies.


You seem to want to extrapolate from "some" to "any". That's a bit of a stretch there.

One only need see that there are major competitors out there in the crowdfunding arena, like , , and , to see that that's not the case.


Yeah, well, some of "the public" view 9/11 as an "inside job", so that doesn't mean much. Just because you think you see something, doesn't mean that it's really there.

This is why I only accept clear verifiable evidence, not wild speculation based on correlations that may mean something else entirely and can be explained much more mundanely.


What new "information"? That's not information, that's just speculation regarding collusion based upon an illusory correlation.

Provide me with some actual information and I'll gladly reconsider my stance, but this looks more like a guy stringing yarn across pushpins to support his crazy conspiracy theory than anything resembling actual information.
After this response it has become clear to me that we will not be agreeing to anything due to your indefensible justifications. So I will end this conversation with this.

1. Hate Speech is still Free Speech protected under the First Amendment within the United States.

2. In Patreons TOS they specifically stated that these rules only applied to Patreon hosted content. F.O.W. initially posted their “offensive” content (animated rape) on Patreon until it was requested to be removed. Then F.O.W. moved that content onto their own website where Patreon did not have purview. However the problem is that nowhere in Patreons guidelines was it made clear what can and cannot be presented on their site with regards to animated content. These were “clarified” recently and used to retroactively justify bans.

3. “Real life” Pornography is explicitly against the Patreon TOS and has been so before the changes.

4.Your justification for disregarding everything I asserted was based on the stance that “correlation is not causation.” But I had already stated that “causation” cannot be proven legally as we do not have the information needed. Yes it is a “theory” but life is built on such “theories” as it is impossible to prove a negative. Please PROVE the “theory of gravity” before you insist that theorizing is in any way untenable.

@HiEv, Please continue believing that the sun orbits the earth. That’s all that you could see. Please don’t mind the conspiracy theory that is the “solar system.” And go ahead and hang that Galileo guy. He’s just a “conspiracy theorist.”
 

Heartlessnobody95

Well-Known Member
Modder
Apr 27, 2017
625
1,119
Yea, no. Studio FOW had a lot of chances to fix their shit. And they even did a couple of times. The simply continued to taunt Patreon right in their faces by posting content against TOS the very next day after being reinstated. It's not bullshit, it's just being arrogant and stupid hence the consequences.
F.O.W. didn’t change their content.
Patreon changed their TOS.

Please take into account that in 2016 adult creators pulled in more revenue than any other sector for Patreon.

Patreon doesn’t pay creators.
Our fans do.
Patreon takes money from us.
So good riddance to bad rubbish.
 

TowerCrow

Member
Donor
Nov 22, 2018
26
34
It's not like Patreon suddenly decided to ban certain adult topics and change their TOS just because they could. They have to defer to what guidelines Visa and Mastercard set for them. All the banned adult content is due to payment processors, not Patreon themselves. Patreon can't do anything about that besides bending the knee.
 

HiEv

Active Member
Sep 1, 2017
286
338
After this response it has become clear to me that we will not be agreeing to anything due to your indefensible justifications.
I don't think you understand what an "indefensible justification" is. Accusing people of things without sufficient evidence is an "indefensible justification" for disliking/distrusting/whatever-ing them. On the other hand, merely not accepting claims which don't have supporting evidence, is an entirely defensible justification for not believing those claims.

1. Hate Speech is still Free Speech protected under the First Amendment within the United States.
That's utterly irrelevant here, since their free speech rights haven't been abridged.

The First Amendment doesn't give you the right to force others to broadcast your speech, nor does it make you immune to the consequences of your speech.

2. In Patreons TOS they specifically stated that these rules only applied to Patreon hosted content.
Not really, no. They have some rather vague wording which could be interpreted that way, or not. It comes down to whether you assume that the first sentence limits the range of application of the second sentence or not:
You are responsible for all the activity on your account. If you do bad things we may terminate your account.
But that's ultimately irrelevant, since also state:
We can terminate or suspend your account at any time at our discretion. We can also cancel any pledges and remove any content or rewards at our discretion.
Basically, by using them you agree that they can terminate you at any time for any reason.

3. “Real life” Pornography is explicitly against the Patreon TOS and has been so before the changes.
But you left out or are unaware that they define "pornographic material" as "real people engaging in sexual acts such as masturbation or sexual intercourse on camera. " ( ) As such, merely posing nude is NOT against their TOS, as you so vehemently claim.

So, no hypocrisy. No favoritism for women. No grand conspiracy. Just you not understanding the Terms of Use.

4.Your justification for disregarding everything I asserted was based on the stance that “correlation is not causation.” But I had already stated that “causation” cannot be proven legally as we do not have the information needed.
Which is my point. If you want to go off half-cocked because you see correlations and want to assume causation, I can't stop you. However, I am totally justified in pointing out, as even you agree, that you don't have sufficient evidence to jump to that conclusion.

Yes it is a “theory” but life is built on such “theories” as it is impossible to prove a negative.
Actually, it is possible to prove a negative in certain situations, such as proving that there are no cookies in the cookie jar by looking.

Regardless, even if you were right, that doesn't justify believing whatever you want merely because we couldn't prove you wrong. In fact, quite the opposite. Otherwise one could "justify" believing in anything that couldn't be disproved.

This is why we have what's called the " ". If you're going to claim that a thing is true, then the burden is upon you to demonstrate it's likelihood using objective evidence, not upon everyone else to prove you wrong.

You have yet to meet the burden of proof for your claim, which is why I can't believe your claim.

Please PROVE the “theory of gravity” before you insist that theorizing is in any way untenable.
And now you're just conflating the layman's definition of "prove" and "theory" with the scientific definition of "prove" and "theory", which are not the same thing.

A scientific theory is "an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. " ( )

As such, "proving" a scientific theory means "testing it to a high degree of certainty". It's a mistake to think that it means demonstrating it to be the absolute truth. It merely means that there have been numerous independent tests done attempting to disprove it in a number of ways, and so far the theory's predictions remain accurate.

@HiEv, Please continue believing that the sun orbits the earth. That’s all that you could see. Please don’t mind the conspiracy theory that is the “solar system.” And go ahead and hang that Galileo guy. He’s just a “conspiracy theorist.”
Wow. You just don't understand science or evidence at all, do you?

There's plenty of evidence that the Earth orbits the Sun. If anyone is acting like a geocentrist here, it's you, since you've demonstrated that you're more than willing to jump to conclusions based on scant evidence, ignoring contrary evidence that explains away most of your "evidence", and being led by your own personal biases.

But hey, if you insulting me makes you more secure in your beliefs, I can't stop that. However, it doesn't actually make your conspiracy theory any more viable, it merely makes you look like you've run out of actual evidence, and so you've resorted to insults now.

If you'd care to bring forth some objective evidence supporting your claim, I'm more than willing to listen, but your ignorance of how evidence works and your insults are far less convincing than you seem to think they are.

Have a nice day! :)
 
Likes: Felicityskye
Dec 17, 2017
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Maybe this new surge of revolt will finally initiate rise of some viable alternatives. I think that using of bitcoin is not so complicated and soon it will be a norm in payment just as now is Paypal. Bitbacker looks interesting.
 
Likes: Pharan

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