He should be able to easily subvert this by making it clear that she's 18. They can't fucking body shame a flat chested cute character. That's just absurd. Think of all the fucking petite porn stars out there that look 15.
Patreon Is Hardening Their 'Adult Content' Guidelines. Discussion Thread
- Thread starter OhWee
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- May 8, 2017
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Maybe but I doubt it. Many creators have been suspended and from many of them we know that ingame content was an issue which they had to change and rewievers were very specific. Patreon has really small staff but its suspending in regular manner and it doesn't seem to be a matter of reports. If only raports matter BB would be suspended long time ago as well as other biggest devs. Moreover if only reports would be the case they would have to check all these devs even before these rules were enforced as previous rules were more or less the same. Whole this thread and issue exists cuz they started to apply those rules and it's very unlikely that they use only reporty system as there is too many games suspended and incest is everywhere. Depiction of minors for example is based on visuals and they won't care if girl is 40+ if she looks too young. Parental Love and Teacher's Pet had this issue as well.
BB? You mean the game that brings in 25k a month? You don't think there isn't a good reason that patreon turns a blind eye? Come on now. As for the "specific" content, that's because when developers do an update they post a changelog to their site that lists the content. There aren't enough getting shut down or caught. Again there are legal reasons why patreon would be hesitant to ask an employee to actually experience adult content. Moreover, its a waste of resources. Sure, if they find a violation in the beginning of the game its no big deal to change it, however what about a game like chloe18. The incest content is technically optional, but it also happens very late in the game. So for patreon to find it they'd have to grind through hours and hours of gameplay. I asuume you're old enough that you've worked a couple jobs. Have you ever had an employer that would be ok with their employees wasting hours of their time grinding through a game? I haven't.
In any case where they don't have a changelog they have some vague reason like the possibility of ********** in the game mentioned above. There isn't any in the game, but either a report or an algorithm picked up on a comment with the word child in it and bam. Others, when people send a violation report, probably have details. I know that I've filed violation reports on safe for work sites before wherein people are getting over the top, they ask for details. I can't imagine that patreon is different.
- May 8, 2017
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DoD and DMD are similiar in scale to BB and they were both reviewed so it's pretty safe guess that BB will be sooner or later as well. Moreover even dev seems to be prepering for that as you can find out in its thread. You're ofc right that they won't find anything in games like Chloe without report but it doesn't mean they can't check anything when most games is renpy which can be checked in a minute. They even check links content so it isn't so unlikely. Just intro is usually enough to judge content. They didn't use any algorithm in Teacher's Pet case as reviewer came up with it during suspension (there was incest) and a report would be meaningless as character was obviously over 18. They just thought it looks too young. Report system is very likely in a standard situation but this one wasn't standard. They were very vocal about these changes and most adult games on their site were incest. Waiting for reports about few games when you announced that whole market should change and you can pick any game on a site seems quite off. Especially that they suddenly started suspending devs on mass. Ofc they could've waited with all their reports for this moment but something isn't right about it.
You can report violations other than age. Its very likely that the content was brought up in the report that flagged it. However maybe, since it is called teachers pet, the reason for the review was the fact that it was Teachers. I have spoken with people in europe who don't see it this way, however in america it's generally a forbidden taboo for a student and a teacher to enter any relationship. America is more sensitive to implied power dynamics because there's less regulation in place to prevent corruption. So, it very well could be that the simple fact that the game implies a chance of corruptive content is all it took. Also, I've not played that, but I read the descrip, doesn't it explicity state that a character in the class is your daughter?
But from what I hear they haven't been suspending them en masse. I keep hearing that they've only targetted a few projects. Is that not true? Is there a list containing hundreds of them? I mean, it seems popular devs like Ptolemy are still producing incest content on patreon. So it can't be as widespread as you seem to think.
- May 8, 2017
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Yes incest was a reason for Teacher's Pet initial suspension. Daughter isn't in class but in home. This case was pretty weird and you might be right about mostly american issues with this case. Given character is 18 and looks like that so that was just their subjective opinion on that matter. In Parental Love removed character is clearly underage.
As for mass suspensions we know about many projects here that were under suspension and other projects changed their sites mostly to hide their content. Adult games aren't really the biggest adult branch Patreon have and I've heard about many suspensions outside adult games. Given that people were talking about 2-3 people responsible for reviews in Patreon it's not surprising they're slow. But ofc I don't know actual scale of suspensions but it has to be serious as only serious actions would make people create public petitions and letters signed by hundreds of creators. But let say we don't have enough data to analyze it properly and you might be right as well
- Jul 6, 2017
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Leaving patreon means leaving a stable audience. It also means leaving paypal. Paypal is the biggest reason for the stricter guidelines.
- Oct 3, 2017
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Those petitions started as early as october when nothing was really done at all, people just wanted to preemptively state their opinion, and those were backed by people all over the board in the NSFW category, meaning creators of games, animations, drawings, cosplay and so on.
And you said mass suspension, we can go back to the beginning of this thread and find out that only a handful of suspensions were handed out when it started in october, and so far I only found out about a handful more of them, which also lead to different reactions, as in, suspended sites dont necessarily mean creators have to change much at all.
Can you elaborate which suspension outside of adult games you mean? Are we talking about completly out of the NSFW category, or do you mean adult movies and such?
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This thread doesn't contain infos about every game that has been changed due to Patreon's restrictions. Not every creator has been striked but I think that everyone has changed their patreon page at the very least. As for ingame content basically every (or large majority of) game with step relations was changed and in biggest games on this site more games have been changed than those who were not in my opinion. Out of 10 games we have in popular section (Patreon games), 5 had problems with Patreon and changed their ingame content. It looks like a fine measure for other devs.
As for suspensions of other NSFW content I think it was about whole category as such. I didn't observe it but I've heard about many creators suspended for their content (plenty of camgirls etc.). But I can't really prove it in any way so who knows what's the scale. In adult games community and this forum whole problem began with suspension of DMD and I really think it's more than likely that Patreon suspended some well-known creators outside of adult games therefore pushing them to create those petitions. Enforced rules weren't much different from those that were before and I don't think people would care about them if they weren't applied suddenly.
- Oct 3, 2017
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Thats for sure, nobody has that I guess. What im saying is, in the first two days it all started not a lot of suspensions became known, while most people, and we can be quite sure about that, were looking up the creators they like to make sure they did not get suspended. And about changing their games, thats another story. You are quite right about nearly all of them cleaning their page, mentioning changes planned and all that what comes humanly.
Thats what I was asking, if theres any real input on that, also the petitions started very early where only suspension were handed out, and Patreon as we heard throws them out just to be safe.
So suspensions so far dont have to mean a lot, basically everyone freely advertising adult content without it beeing behind a paywall could get suspended. Even without content violating their guidelines.
Now for some data we do apparently have, an early list of suspensions (and only suspensions)
and some of the creators that had to change content (in varying degrees) after receiving suspension (be it the first or not)
3diddly (Katie's Corruption)
Faerin (Man of the House)
irredeemable (Teachers Pet)
Luxee (Parental Love)
Mr Sin (Dreams of Desire)
Mr Dots (Dating my Daughter)
SexcurseStudios (Insexual Awakening)
GDS (Chloe18)
- May 8, 2017
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Question is what's the scale when it comes to whole NSFW content. And what's the scale of minor, not so-popular devs as these are all more or less well-known devs. But even if scale isn't large it already affected whole market as bigger devs can't risk when many of the biggest were suspended. My bet is that real effects of this whole Patreon issue will be known in a year when devs will finish their projects and start new ones. Maybe some new platform will emerge, maybe people will keep developing games with patches or leave banned fetishes on a margin. Some change will come
- Oct 3, 2017
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There are already new platforms springing up. The issue is going to be convincing the audience and the devs to follow. Some might, especially if Incest rape or bestiality are their bread and butter, but people who don't play the taboo game don't have to risk their established audience like that. The biggest hurdle will be payment options. Some of these new platforms are making sure that you can use bitcoin, which is nice as you won't need to use your credit card directly, however also a hassle in a way, as you have to have bitcoin.
As for what effect it will have, I honestly think it will be negligible. Restricting underage content didn't kill lolicon, restricting incest content won't kill incest. Yeah, the sites that cater to it might change, but people always find a way to subvert or lie their way around a regulation. As they say, rules are meant to be broken.
- May 8, 2017
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At this point it's hard to imagine any succesful platform without paypal and that's more or less the biggest issue and reason why Patreon is so strong. I don't think bitcoin will be any alternative but who knows.
Sure people will always create such a content but platform is crucial. If platform will stand against it people might find it too troublesome to play with patches and other methods so they might change mainstream genres so incest will become more niche. Lolicon isn't really an example as it's one of those terms that are simply hard to understand for majority western people as it's from Japan. Oriental origin and cartoonish style makes it much easier to accept for us. Moreover Japan or even Asia as whole doesn't have problems with forbidden content as we do. Not to this extent as their market isn't addicted to 1 crowdfunding page so loli, rape or incest don't need to hide there. If new platform emerge for our games, we will be flooded by incest games once more but with just Patreon it might be not worth it for developers.
Well I can say this for sure. I'm developing an incest game. I plan to try to fund it through a Patreon Competitor, however if that doesn't work out I'll put it on patreon and hide its content from the page. I already have a mechanism in the game to choose not to have it, it'll be up to the players if they want to experience it or not.
- May 8, 2017
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Boner games (
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) has been suspended. I suspect they're in a huge trouble as most characters of School of Lust is clearly underage and there is incest. RPGM game isn't easy for changes so I really do wonder how they will act. In my dreamland they will drop SoL and return to Game of Boners but I doubt it
- Oct 3, 2017
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Ehh not up to argue if anyone would see them as whatever, but Sex Curse studios has both mentioned points and still operates after a suspension, going the patch route.
Did not mod them myself, but after having played a lot of RPGmaker games, and also fan patching them with translations, and seeing how translators or even players change variables/add things, I had the feeling that you can switch out things easily enough to make different versions or patch them.
Also, wasnt Game of Boners RPGmaker too with incest? Now the interesting question, do they "review" all works of the creator, or just the one that someone might have reported? All those questions.
Edit: just remembered that there was a recent case where apparently they did not investigate all works of the creator reported, only the reported creation.
Did not mod them myself, but after having played a lot of RPGmaker games, and also fan patching them with translations, and seeing how translators or even players change variables/add things, I had the feeling that you can switch out things easily enough to make different versions or patch them.
Also, wasnt Game of Boners RPGmaker too with incest? Now the interesting question, do they "review" all works of the creator, or just the one that someone might have reported? All those questions.
Edit: just remembered that there was a recent case where apparently they did not investigate all works of the creator reported, only the reported creation.
Is Game of Boner's a GoT parody? I think technically they are allowed to do that as GoT is specifically mentioned in their guidelines
- Oct 3, 2017
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Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Excerpt from the guidelines:
We understand that some topics on this list such as incest or rape are a little bit more complicated because these situations are, unfortunately, part of real life. As a result, when reviewing this type of content, the Trust and Safety team will take into consideration context including personal, historical or educational narrative. For example, survivor stories or fiction such as Game of Thrones or Lolita are allowed on Patreon.
Its not as known in itself, probably does not count as a survivor story in itself, just a parody of a famous series, with still so called "fringe" unwanted content. Would be too easy to just slap some GoT in every game. But thats how it is, you can only guess if its goes through or not. My guess would be a no though? Ugh who knows.
Excerpt from the guidelines:
We understand that some topics on this list such as incest or rape are a little bit more complicated because these situations are, unfortunately, part of real life. As a result, when reviewing this type of content, the Trust and Safety team will take into consideration context including personal, historical or educational narrative. For example, survivor stories or fiction such as Game of Thrones or Lolita are allowed on Patreon.
Its not as known in itself, probably does not count as a survivor story in itself, just a parody of a famous series, with still so called "fringe" unwanted content. Would be too easy to just slap some GoT in every game. But thats how it is, you can only guess if its goes through or not. My guess would be a no though? Ugh who knows.