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Patreon Is Hardening Their 'Adult Content' Guidelines. Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Programming & Development' started by OhWee, Oct 19, 2017.

  1. NaughtyScales

    NaughtyScales Member

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    Okay i will try my method, when I finish building my game XD
    If not work i will write here )
     
  2. DarthSeduction

    DarthSeduction Lord of Passion Donor Game Developer

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    It likely isn't a human being that is monitoring these things, as I've said before. We have to remember we are dealing with a corporate entity. If it was a small forum like this, or a low subscriber subreddit then they might have human moderators, but on the scale of patreon its going to be bots and algorithms. The reason they're getting away thus far is simply because they haven't tripped the bot and there's been no white knight to report them.

    It could all work out for the best. And yes, you could post a mod for it here or on lewd patcher under a pseudonym and maintain plausible deniability. But I really think those are unnecessary steps, if you are going to patch it anyways, why not package it with the game? Patreon isn't playing them. Patreon isn't even downloading them. They wouldn't waste that kind of money to have a human experience the content for every single hours long game. Either a choice in game, or a readme could alert people to it's presence. Thereby players would be aware of the content but it wouldn't need to be spoken about online where it could be found.
     
  3. Jim Webb

    Jim Webb Active Member

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    So has anyone heard of MakerSupport?

    Please Log in / Register to view this link



    It is the only alternative I have seen to Patreon that seems any good.
    You keep 90% of the pledged money they take 5% and the remaining 5% is for transaction fees.
    From what I have seen and been told they would have zero problem of having ANY Adult games on there site.
     
  4. Delmach

    Delmach Active Member

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    Thats what I said as well a while ago, I kinda share your opinion on it, and so far most things do point out to them being reported by someone. Latest example is GDS, where apparently an automatic email came which even had necrophilia mentioned, which isnt in game. But they say better safe than sorry, suspend the website and then check on it.

    But one thing is different, im not saying they arent playing them, im not saying they arent even downloading them, because I dont know or can be 100% sure there.

    And heres why I have my doubts, which program would take nearly 3 months now (it started going down on the 18th october) to find, and im going by my own knowledge there, not even a dozen cases that violate their guidelines, while basically every second game in the "hidden" NSFW category would violate them.

    Now lets assume human beings would really check them, the same kinda applies there, cant really work that slow (well maybe) but it just doesnt really add up or make sense, check more than 2 games in the NSFW and there you go.

    What im trying to say is, the heck knows how they operate, no idea why some can indeed share their unwanted content on websites, but through a password check and relay to another site route, and others just say "it isnt connected to Patreon, they just pay for my hardware" while it clearly isnt. The last case also happened before the enforced guidelines, but it was a copyright thing, the creators do still use patreon.

    This all does pretty much go in hand with how the community guideline people communicated with the creators though, as there was a wide variety of "ehh looks fine, continue with what you do" and "scrub your whole patreon page, delete all comments, change renders, basically change everything".

    Darn, thought it would be a smaller wall of text this time, sorry 'bout that.
     
  5. DarthSeduction

    DarthSeduction Lord of Passion Donor Game Developer

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    You're right that we can't know anything for a 100% certainty, but asking your employees to experience or download adult content is incredibly murky territory, even if they actually are an adult company. Most large scale operations simply pull it down. If you challenge, then there might be an investigation, but only then. At that point its certainly more possible that someone will be asked to take the step of actually assessing the content. However, again, there are definite legal issues there. The employee would likely have to sign a few forms stating that they are comfortable with this duty, and even then, we are talking about an hours long commitment.

    You are right, that if the number of cases is so small that it probably is all report based. If that's the case, then its fine to try and flout them the other way, I simply think its an extra step, plus an expense if you're hosting your own site.
     
  6. DarthSeduction

    DarthSeduction Lord of Passion Donor Game Developer

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    Another provider could work, however the current model of capitalism really makes a jump of this nature difficult to pull off. Hosting your content on Patreon comes with brand recognition and a large active customer base. Essentially, we would need not just one or two, but all content providers to jump ship.

    Does it support paypal? That is a must. A payment method that doesn't involve peoples credit card information brings in a more willing customer base. I suppose a crypto currency could work as well, but I feel like they aren't really that stable and people aren't willing to invest in them in order to pay for content.

    Then, last but not least, we would need some sort of assurance from MakerSupport that they wouldn't buckle to corporate pressure to censor content. Because if we were to invest in that move we would be vulnerable in ways we aren't now. There are plenty of content providers on Patreon who haven't been caught and who are doing just fine. Would a move to MakerSupport expose them to hardships they aren't currently facing?
     
  7. greyelf

    greyelf Well-Known Member

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    I think a number of people are getting hung up on what rights Patreon has to control the content of the end product (lets assume it's a release of a game) but are forgetting that one of the purposes of Patreon is to allow subscribers to fund the creation process.

    Because Patreon is (mostly) targeting the creation process (not the end product) it is possible for them to have a greater say on what types of creation processes and what content types (created by those processes) they are willing to allow to be funded via their web-site. This is why they feel they have the rights to monitor end product hosted somewhere else when they believe that said end product was created using that funding.
     
  8. Jim Webb

    Jim Webb Active Member

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    To your first point I agree but I do not see any future on Patreon for Adult content of any kind so better to jump first until pushed. If it was me I would use both sites and try and move as many of my supporters from one site to the other

    To your second I don't know I will try and find out my knowledge has come second hand I will contact the company and try and find that info.

    Third point I do know as I Am aware that the company was started specificity because of the way Patreon has been acting remember it's not just Adult games they want gone, they have kicked off a lot of people from there platform for an myriad of reason none of them acceptable in my view.
     
  9. DarthSeduction

    DarthSeduction Lord of Passion Donor Game Developer

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    I would have to read to know for a fact, but it's likely that Patreon will not allow you to use their platform while also trying to drag people to a competitor. In that instance, any dragging of your base will have to be done third party, for instance, here, on a subreddit, or on your personal blog or discord. If you could get away with the dual presence, sure, that's smart. Again, I'm not exactly worried about the current creators with a large fanbase. Ptolemy could make the switch and probably not lose a penny. But to any new developers who don't already have a fanbase Patreon offers stability.

    And yes, Paypal is a make or break. Sadly.

    Patreon happened to come out and say that they wouldn't censor adult content a year or so ago, didn't they? That's the major problem I have with enabling another company. Their assurances almost need to be binding, because it is the size and growth of Patreon that caused them to make this switch, what will stop this company from doing the same.
     
  10. Jim Webb

    Jim Webb Active Member

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    This was the owners response to that question:

    We use credit cards and debit cards for pledges and donations currently. PayPal's terms state that we cannot use PayPal for crowdfunding purposes like our site does, but we intend to bring Bitcoin support in the coming month.


    So, no Paypal but Bitcoin this month Personally myself I use Paypal fine but Now I would probably trust Bitcoin more.
     
  11. DarthSeduction

    DarthSeduction Lord of Passion Donor Game Developer

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    The good thing about Crypto currency is that its difficult to trace. So its less likely to become an issue, however it still creates a barrier for entry. So yeah, I'll probably give them a try when I launch my project, but my hopes aren't high. I'll probably have a dual presence between there and Patreon.
     
  12. Maxilase

    Maxilase New Member

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    Hello community,

    I have a specific question as I'm making my first Renpy game.

    Would patreon ban a game because at some point in the game the main character has naughty thoughts about a family member ? (these thoughts are only narrative, and are not supported with graphics)

    My apologies if this has already been answered.
     
  13. DSSAlex

    DSSAlex Active Member

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    The policy is applied in a scattershot, random manner. Probably you would be fine but you might get a more stringent agent and get fucked.
     
    Maxilase likes this.
  14. Mr.N

    Mr.N Сладкий пирожок Game Developer

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    Hey guys. patrone's policy, everything is clear... that sucks. But what about BigBrother and Dream of Desire? This games have incest (and characters call Mom,Sis,son etc). As far as I know they do not use the patches. How do they bypass it? (i make a game and I think how to get around this)
     
  15. Ignazzio

    Ignazzio Well-Known Member

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    I think that DoD had really fine reviewer who didn't mention game's content so just any confirmation of family relations from patreon was removed. But it might be picked again and it's doomed then. As for BB, it wasn't under review yet as Patreon works really slow and has hundreds of different projects to check. BB's dev is switching to another game so if it will be suspended new game will probably take place of BB cuz it's unlikely he'll change BB. It all depends on your reviewer. You have to remove any "illegal" content from your Patreon page and hope they won't mess with you. In worst case you might be reviewed by a strick reviewer who will make you change every element of your game that's not appropriate for them.
     
  16. Mr.N

    Mr.N Сладкий пирожок Game Developer

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  17. DarthSeduction

    DarthSeduction Lord of Passion Donor Game Developer

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    Honestly this should be fine so long as you don't draw attention to it. I can't stress enough, Patreon isn't paying someone to spend a few hours playing through your content. It's an inefficient use of their resources to begin with, and more importantly, if they were, then there would be far more cases of games being shut down. Don't put it on your page and there's no reason that Patreon will know unless some crusader decides to report you. In your case they have nothing to report, so you should be good... unless the thoughts include images that would be incest, then you've essentially done the deed. It's not like you can make the argument that it didn't actually happen because they're already censoring fiction.
     
    Maxilase likes this.
  18. Thundorn

    Thundorn Member Game Developer

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    I still chuckle at the panic this has caused. Sex and in particular extreme content in computer games has always presented challenges. Patreon has only been around for a few years and people have already become absurdly reliant on it. Patreons rules are what they are and they wont back down. We are all super clever developers here so i'm sure that with a little imagination you can find a workaround.

    No agent or bot is going to play your game, certainly not all the way through unless they are a perve themselves. So my first tip would be stop advertising your game as an incest game on Patreon itself...
     
    Maxilase and DarthSeduction like this.
  19. Ignazzio

    Ignazzio Well-Known Member

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    Problem with ingame content is severe if you'll be reported by anyone who don't like you. They don't even have to play it if someone is reporting it.
     
  20. DarthSeduction

    DarthSeduction Lord of Passion Donor Game Developer

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    Well if you're trying to sell content then you should also be trying not to arbitrarily piss people off. Make the content optional like several developers already have. No prude who plays your game is going out of their way if they didn't have to experience something they didn't want to.
     
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