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Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.40.0] [Selebus]

4.20 star(s) 292 Votes
Discussion Reviews (292)
TheSeedy1

TheSeedy1

Member
Jan 2, 2020
194
368
I don't even know how I missed this event :( I hope Rin path isn't bricked now either cause of it. Restarting this game is...exhausting lol.
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B

Breadtaker

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Nov 18, 2023
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DeSkel15 said:
That's a peculiar way to flatter someone, and even then, Sensei just ignored it. He wasn't flattered. Ayane also ends up being surprised by Sensei sleeping with others, not noticing Molly was jealous of Otoha, not doing anything when Maya cried, and she doesn't really seem to understand anyone when it comes down to it. Ami, Makoto, Maya, Sana, Sensei, etc. Keep in mind that she thought Sana was completely innocent and pure, when that's just an act. Her answer to Ami's problems is also simply violence.

Empathy requires accuracy or it's not actually empathy. It's about understanding and feeling what others feel. Overcoming it together. Being wrong about what someone is feeling, shows a lack of understanding. Ayane thinks she understands others, yet never really does, which speaks for itself.

That card was actually Chika's idea to get Sensei to come back. Ayane mentioning others, especially Maya, was just to get what she wanted in the end, Sensei back. She's definitely not trying to get Maya and Sensei together. Ayane was simply out of ideas and was hoping for a miracle the night before.

Ayane also can't stop others from pursuing Sensei. Sensei goes to them, and even if she tried, that'd mess up her relationship with Sensei. That hasn't stopped her from secretly slapping Ami, trying to cuck Maya on the roof, and fucking him on both Ami's and Sana's beds behind their back, though.

Sympathy and empathy are different things. For example, Makoto isn't really bothered by Maya, like Ayane was. Ayane can understand being belittled by Maya, but not how being belittled by Maya actually makes others feel.

Ayane's kind of earned Ami's disdain (most have at this point). Lying to her, intentionally leaving her out of things, trying to fuck the man she loves on her bed, etc.

Early Chapter 4 Ami reached her breaking point, which has likely been building up since Sensei let slip he carried stuff at night for Maya back in Chapter 1. At least. From Ami's point of view, her friends have continuously been betraying her and endangering the only family she has left, for a long time, behind her back, and nothing she does can stop it or him, from hurting himself and her. It's not just Sensei who broke her. Everyone's been hurting her:
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Imagine if your best friends were sneaking around, fucking, and endangering your love interest that you do virtually everything for. One wrong move could lead to them being locked away. That's more or less Ami's life.

Just add voices, delusions, blackouts, more or less raising that adult love interest as a kid, and ptsd from watching your parents be taken from you, on top of it. This world also likely plays a factor. She seems aware of how things don't make sense, and are usually repetitive.

Overall: Ami has been driven insane and recently reached a breaking point. Ayane helped her get here.
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I feel like you've read between the lines. Annotated it. Read between the lines of your own annotation. Then did that again to arrive at a far-fetched cynical conclusion that Ayane is both sinister and doesn't understand anyone. Ayane being caring isn't some secret I'm uncovering. It's very plainly stated in the game and takes some intense mental gymnastics to overcome. Heck, in the last two scenes we've seen of Ayane we see her concerned about Yasu and Io and have a lengthy conversation with Sana about how she feels.
Your rebuttal of Ayane's card doesn't hold up when you consider her conversation with new Maya right after the reset where she basically tells Maya the same thing. Shes not out of ideas. Acknowledging Sensei and Maya's relationship and pain is literally her go to after Sensei starts to break.

And I know this is semantics at this point but empathy is not being a hyper observant detective. Its about sharing the emotions that are presented to you. For example, Nodoka explaining the way Io feels doesn't remotely make her empathetic. That's the entire point of that scene. Molly breaking down at the beach and having others share in that pain IS empathy.
This is like saying someone doesn't understand english because they can't understand you muttering under your breath. Nah, that guy is fluent. You're just not communicating.

This is all really straying far from my original point. It wasn't my intention to rank a character's ability to understand others. I would have chosen a different word had I known so much emphasis was going to be put on it. My point is, right now, Ami, Maya, and Ayane's friendship is dysfunctional. Indirectly, it's because of Sensei. Directly, it's because the relationship is currently completely one sided from every angle you look at it.

I appreciate the points you make. Sorry if any of this came off as heated.
 
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Fire Lord Zuko

Fire Lord Zuko

Member
Aug 20, 2021
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TheSeedy1 said:
Damn so if you have another event before others it'll brick stuff? Geezus.
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Yup. This game loves its pitfalls. I use the Guide Mod personally, so I can always avoid mishaps like that and also know what to do next. It saves a lot of time.

The Guide Mod and URM are life savers if you don’t have them already. I definitely recommend them both.
 
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barglenarglezous

barglenarglezous

Engaged Member
Sep 5, 2020
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TheSeedy1 said:
Damn so if you have another event before others it'll brick stuff? Geezus.
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Only rarely, and every single time you're warned in advance.

Rin asked you to let her take her shot before you. You plowed right ahead, and she's reacting that that disrespect.

Future tip: when the game says "You might want to do X before you Y," you will want to do X before you do Y.
 
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TheSeedy1

TheSeedy1

Member
Jan 2, 2020
194
368
Fire Lord Zuko said:
Yup. This game loves its pitfalls. I use the Guide Mod personally, so I can always avoid mishaps like that and also know what to do next. It saves a lot of time.

The Guide Mod and URM are life savers if you don’t have them already. I definitely recommend them both.
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Yeah I'm not a fan of that - I don't mind some complexity but this is a bit crazy. I do have the guide mod but I picked it up after I was awhile in so I suspect I had already bricked my path cause I pursued Chika pretty early on lol.

What is the URM? I don't think I've seen that one - might try it cause the idea of losing this much progress is....oof.
 
TheSeedy1

TheSeedy1

Member
Jan 2, 2020
194
368
barglenarglezous said:
Only rarely, and every single time you're warned in advance.

Rin asked you to let her take her shot before you. You plowed right ahead, and she's reacting that that disrespect.

Future tip: when the game says "You might want to do X before you Y," you will want to do X before you do Y.
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Aha yep - I do recall this. And I think I was just so early in the game and kind of winding thru I forgot that. That's fair - my fault end of the day RIP lol.
 
DeSkel15

DeSkel15

Engaged Member
Sep 29, 2019
2,102
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TheSeedy1 said:
I don't even know how I missed this event :( I hope Rin path isn't bricked now either cause of it. Restarting this game is...exhausting lol.
View attachment 3587855
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That's the event. You missed it because Sensei messed around with Chika and betrayed Rin's trust. Missing events is fine though. You don't have to get every event.

I recommend getting the URM to edit and alter whatever values you want, and also probably keeping a save from when you can first visit the Dorms, then after every event chain, just in case you want to do things differently, so you don't have to restart the game.
 
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Fire Lord Zuko

Fire Lord Zuko

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Aug 20, 2021
357
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TheSeedy1 said:
What is the URM? I don't think I've seen that one - might try it cause the idea of losing this much progress is....oof.
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Universal Ren’py Mod. It allows you to view and change variables in real time, and is a valuable asset for Lessons In Love in particular. In your case, it will allow you to undo the Bad Homie route and make it as though you didn’t miss the event at all. Oh, and you can also use the URM to manipulate affection points and skip BS grind! So that’s a plus.

Here’s a link to it: https://f95zone.to/threads/universal-renpy-mod-urm-2-1-4-mod-any-renpy-game-yourself.48025/
 
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TheSeedy1

TheSeedy1

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Jan 2, 2020
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Appreciate it! I'll fuss with it - if not, restart it is and paying closer attention. Thanks for all the help and answers!

Note to self - probably could have searched that too
 
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Fire Lord Zuko

Fire Lord Zuko

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Aug 20, 2021
357
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TheSeedy1 said:
Appreciate it! I'll fuss with it - if not, restart it is and paying closer attention. Thanks for all the help and answers!

Note to self - probably could have searched that too
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When you do, type in the search bar these things:

‘rinbetrayed’. You will see that variable is listed as True since, yeah. You were a Bad Homie. Set it to False.

After that, type in ‘cafe35’. Set that to True.

You should now be a Good Homie to Rin and the missing event should now be unlocked.
 
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DeSkel15

DeSkel15

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Sep 29, 2019
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Breadtaker said:
I feel like you've read between the lines. Annotated it. Read between the lines of your own annotation. Then did that again to arrive at a far-fetched cynical conclusion that Ayane is both sinister and doesn't understand anyone. Ayane being caring isn't some secret I'm uncovering. It's very plainly stated in the game and takes some intense mental gymnastics to overcome. Heck, in the last two scenes we've seen of Ayane we see her concerned about Yasu and Io and have a lengthy conversation with Sana about how she feels.
Your rebuttal of Ayane's card doesn't hold up when you consider her conversation with new Maya right after the reset where she basically tells Maya the same thing. Shes not out of ideas. Acknowledging Sensei and Maya's relationship and pain is literally her go to after Sensei starts to break.

And I know this is semantics at this point but empathy is not being a hyper observant detective. Its about sharing the emotions that are presented to you. For example, Nodoka explaining the way Io feels doesn't remotely make her empathetic. That's the entire point of that scene. Molly breaking down at the beach and having others share in that pain IS empathy.
This is like saying someone doesn't understand english because they can't understand you muttering under your breath. Nah, that guy is fluent. You're just not communicating.

This is all really straying far from my original point. It wasn't my intention to rank a character's ability to understand others. I would have chosen a different word had I known so much emphasis was going to be put on it. My point is, right now, Ami, Maya, and Ayane's friendship is dysfunctional. Indirectly, it's because of Sensei. Directly, it's because the relationship is currently completely one sided from every angle you look at it.

I appreciate the points you make. Sorry if any of this came off as heated.
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It seems like that's more like what you're doing; reading between non existent lines to reach some headcanon that views Ayane as better than she is.

This conversation isn't even about Ayane being "caring", it's about her being empathetic. That's not the same thing. I recommend googling the definition of empathy.

Ayane also literally says she was out of ideas:
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"Ayane's card" was literally Chika's idea.

You're right that Nodoka isn't empathetic. She doesn't understand others. She still cares for her mother and friends, though, hence Empathy and Caring are not the same thing. Being nice or kind isn't the same as understanding others. Sympathy vs Empathy. Etc etc. Ayane also didn't understand Molly on the beach btw, I've brought that up in another post (The Noriko being more perceptive part):
DeSkel15 said:
I think Ayane's kindness is more like a mask she wears.

The real Ayane wants Sensei all for herself, has tried to fuck him on the beds of her best friends, possibly stole Ami's first kiss to cover up her lies, and there was a Main Event that became a deleted scene called 'Horrible People' where she sucked Sensei off under his desk while Ami was talking about wanting to spend time with him, which more or less emphasized that Ayane kind of sucks in more ways than one:
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(Probably too much, hence it becoming a deleted scene while Sel probably prefers it being more subtle.)

Ayane seems to be kind of a shitty person deep down, which may be implied by her causing trouble for businesses, manslaughtering Janitors, and lying to and/or using everyone who's there for her, like Ami and Sana. (Keep in mind Ami and Sana have likely been there for her since her mother left her at 11)

When it comes down to it, Ayane simply seems out for herself:
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And there's nothing we can do to stop her:
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Frankly, Ayane may have even played a part in Maya's crumbling based off how she was acting before it:
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And how Yasu implied she knew Ayane wanted to take Maya's place:
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Which she kind of has, albeit probably not in the way she wanted.

Noriko on the other hand wishes Ayane luck in her pursuit of Sensei:
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And basically wants everyone to be happy, whether it's Ami, Maya, or Uta:
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It's also been shown that Noriko is more perceptive than Ayane:
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Or at least more Empathetic.

Overall: Ayane and Noriko are similar in their outspoken love for Sensei, but are notably different in how they spend their time, think, and treat others.
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DeSkel15 said:
Ayane actually tried to convince Sensei to fuck her on Ami's bed twice (first try got interrupted by Ami), and Sensei can fuck Ayane on Sana's bed towards the end of Chapter 3, as well, which seemed to also be Ayane's idea:
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The Kirin stuff is completely optional and doesn't really matter much because of it. Kirin and Ayane can even still be friends currently.

Nothing makes this look good.

Ayane refused to use Sara's name because she saw her as a threat once, but yeah she's not really threatening to jump people like Chika. Although she very clearly does not want to share or let anyone else have a chance with Sensei. Noriko actually supports others, including her sister, in trying to get with Sensei. Noriko wants to be loved, but being the only one isn't really the plan, as she seems to be perfectly fine with sharing him. Ayane also does get a little hostile when she thinks someone is trying to "steal" Sensei:
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Ayane spent hours with the Shapeshifter and was talking about why the world is like this when she said it was good news for her:
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Anyway, the point was she might have helped kill off Maya Prime, to steal her place, but it's not entirely clear yet. If so, she should at the least feel guilty.

Ayane acknowledging that someone, even Sana, wants Sensei, isn't anywhere close to Noriko wishing her own rivals luck, and wanting them to be happy. We also haven't seen the actual fallout of Sana admitting her feelings to Ayane (Ayane definitely acted strange). Sana actually seemed to grow closer to Noriko after it, ironically.

Overall: Until Noriko goes out of her way to fuck Sensei on Niki's or even Kirin's bed, I don't really see how they are all that comparable, beyond being outspoken about their love for Sensei. Ayane even seems far more stalkerish. Having pics of Sensei sleeping on her wall, and recently casually pulling out a copy of his phone.

Ayane's also straight, rich, and studies karate for fun. Noriko is bi, works, and delivers food to the homeless. Ayane carries guns. Noriko carries a pocket knife. Ayane will choke and slap people. Noriko hasn't even hurt a fly as far as I recall. Even when it comes to diets they are different.

If Noriko was actually like Ayane, Kirin would probably have issues with her like she does with Ayane and Karin.

Frankly, I see Kirin and Ayane as even more similar. Both get off on defiling the things of others, will betray the trust of their friends for Sensei's dick, are neglected by their parents, and gave away their virginity as soon as they could.

Edit: Ayane and Kirin also both have "loli" friends they are close with and actually tried to preserve their innocence at the start, until they became corrupted anyway. (Sana vs Miku)
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Ayane's lack of empathy contrasts her with Noriko.

But yeah, their relationships are dysfunctional. It'd probably be better if they quit lying to, hitting (in Ayane's case), and betraying eachother.

It is one sided from Ami's side, though.
Keep in mind: Ami is broken in bed right now. Where are her "friends" that she's been there for when they were sad? There's a reason Ami pointed out that she wishes she had a friend she could trust last update:
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All of her friends seem to want to betray her and fuck her uncle. Also apparently fuck him on her bed, because I guess that's just the kind of people they are. Sana at least seems up for sharing, ironically:
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4.20 star(s) 292 Votes