Unity Gearing up for a 2D game: a question regarding Unity packages

FatBastard1337

New Member
Jan 11, 2018
8
5
Oh, hi. Now, I'm no seasoned dev - I'm just your standard pervert.

Still, I want to play a pimping game situated in the Mass Effect universe (bitch management, fucking, resource management, leveling up (for more specialized fucking), traveling across the galaxy (and fucking alien species), and perhaps even a story & 2D platformer minigames). Since there is no such game out there, I'm thinking of making one.

The game might resemble the likes of Simbro or Porn Empire, game mechanics-wise.
Question is: how to do the game right?

ETA? No rush at all. What concerns me, though:
  • To get the concept of the game right (fun and engaging game mechanics, clear game scope definition and work breakdown structure)
  • To pick technology that looks good while also being fast at development cycles (I'm for Unity 2D; still, these animations have to look good)
  • To pick a fitting & fast art style
Regarding game mechanics, (Mass effect as well) has some interesting stuff in it. Kind of basic, though. Needs expanding, needs to be tied to the leveling system. And of course, a potential resource/economy system, that would be a question of its own (to provide an engaging challenge, and to allow the player to unlock progression to new levels/events.

As for the art style, that high-contrast semi-realistic character style, as seen in the likes of , looks fitting to me (that, coupled with Mass Effect's artbook guidance and generic architecture may go well). Still, this is merely an idea in progress...

As for Unity, any seasoned devs here to possibly offer advice? Any templates out there ready to be used? So far, I'm looking at Photoshop + Anima2D (bone system, IKs, embedded animations). Yeah, most of the game would be static backgrounds with animated characters in the foreground (fucking; but also a dialog system, character/leveling system, inventory/ship management system, bitch management system, map/traveling system).
 

mor joc

Newbie
Nov 15, 2017
21
10
Pardon me for sounding so negetive. As high ambitions are good, its better to start small when you are creating games especialy if it is you first game. Trust me I finaly finished my first game after 3 years of thinking cool ideas are later rejecting them because I set my scope too high. As a one man team you have to take care of writting, coding, designing all by yourself and thats a overwhelming task. So as I was saying start small.

As for unity if you dont want to spend a lot of money buying things from asset store then dont go for it. Unity isn't ideal for VN style games. You have to write tons of boiler plate code just to make a main menu, pause menu, save/load feature and dialog system. I would suggest using RenPy or RPGM as they took care all of these things and you can just focus on making your game. I would suggest RenPy as it is so simple and later if you want you can extend its functionality thanks to pygame support.

If you are still going for Unity thn check out Fungus, its a open source asset for Unity that will make your life a lot easier while writing VN.
 
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Cyan

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Jul 25, 2017
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Still, I want to play a pimping game situated in the Mass Effect universe (bitch management, fucking, resource management, leveling up (for more specialized fucking), traveling across the galaxy (and fucking alien species), and perhaps even a story & 2D platformer minigames). Since there is no such game out there, I'm thinking of making one.

The game might resemble the likes of Simbro or Porn Empire, game mechanics-wise.
Question is: how to do the game right?
Well the gameplay/management aspect I think is a good idea, I would stick away from anything Mass Effect related. EA has a major stick up their ass about when it comes to anything related to their content. I can't confirm if it's true in , but rumor is that they were shut down by EA, as some others have. (I haven't played the game, but my guess is that it falls completely under fair use)

ETA? No rush at all. What concerns me, though:
  • To get the concept of the game right (fun and engaging game mechanics, clear game scope definition and work breakdown structure)
  • To pick technology that looks good while also being fast at development cycles (I'm for Unity 2D; still, these animations have to look good)
  • To pick a fitting & fast art style
Regarding game mechanics, (Mass effect as well) has some interesting stuff in it. Kind of basic, though. Needs expanding, needs to be tied to the leveling system. And of course, a potential resource/economy system, that would be a question of its own (to provide an engaging challenge, and to allow the player to unlock progression to new levels/events.
Based on this, I wouldn't use Ren'py, as was suggested by the earlier comment. Ren'py just doesn't have an as strong animation system as Unity, nor can it handle large intricate systems such as a galaxy wide economy, in my opinion. Unity is just much better for that type of thing.

However, @mor joc is completely correct on the downsides of Unity, the lack of an integrated save system and chat system. (Making a Main Menu and pause menu are painfully easy, so I wouldn't use those as downsides)

As for the art style, that high-contrast semi-realistic character style, as seen in the likes of , looks fitting to me (that, coupled with Mass Effect's artbook guidance and generic architecture may go well). Still, this is merely an idea in progress...

As for Unity, any seasoned devs here to possibly offer advice? Any templates out there ready to be used? So far, I'm looking at Photoshop + Anima2D (bone system, IKs, embedded animations). Yeah, most of the game would be static backgrounds with animated characters in the foreground (fucking; but also a dialog system, character/leveling system, inventory/ship management system, bitch management system, map/traveling system).
You'll need a really good artist if you want to make 2D cartoony images of Mass Effect scenes.

P.S. - Look up 'Insexity', it's a game that's a little heavier on the animation - made in Unity. That game would be incredibly difficult to make in Ren'py. If your sex scenes consist of just looping sprites then Ren'py is the way to go, but if you have more complex animations and individualized limb control like in that game, I'd stick to Unity.
 
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FatBastard1337

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Jan 11, 2018
8
5
Trust me I finaly finished my first game after 3 years of thinking cool ideas are later rejecting them because I set my scope too high.
Three years for game development time seems reasonable. Especially if you go the Patreon route...
Regarding the size of the scope, oh well. That's why I'm making this post. Also, why suggesting a virtual novel? You know it can't do much.

As a one man team you have to take care of writting, coding, designing all by yourself and thats a overwhelming task.
The way I see it, having some sane pre-production plan should come rather easy; same with actually programming in the desired functionality (be it an inventory system, a character/leveling system, a dialogue system, some isometric walk-through across the levels, etc.); what I'm terrified of is the world-building, the level design, the narrative of the story, the balancing, and most of all, the actual art and animations.

Still, going with a vertical slice approach (i.e. having most of the mechanics/functionality ready first, and then adding in the levels, with care, one by one) might be the key here - that is, actually offering something presentable all while maintaining the same level of quality, and moving on to other locations for extra gameplay and story.

I would stick away from anything Mass Effect related. EA has a major stick up their ass about when it comes to anything related to their content. I can't confirm if it's true in , but rumor is that they were shut down by EA, as some others have. (I haven't played the game, but my guess is that it falls completely under fair use)
Ass Effect? Amusing. As per my brief search, I've found one by that name (with some adorable art in it), with with a girl wearing a horrible Asari wig, and , with a nice touch on the omnitool.

I don't know. Say, if I were to set up a patreon account, and I refrained from making any direct Mass Effect references (e.g. making Commander Shepard into a villainous Colonel Sheeptard), would those EA people actually still go after it?
Also, what constitutes that fair use terminology you mentioned?

FYI, I'm not interested in Commander Shepard. anyway. It is who deserves a game of his own (a well-perverted game of pimping, crime and swimming in pussy).

Based on this, I wouldn't use Ren'py, as was suggested by the earlier comment. Ren'py just doesn't have an as strong animation system as Unity, nor can it handle large intricate systems such as a galaxy wide economy, in my opinion. Unity is just much better for that type of thing.
Yep.

However, @mor joc is completely correct on the downsides of Unity, the lack of an integrated save system and chat system.
A chat system should be relatively easy to implement, I think. The engine would just load a particular JSON file with all the conversation hook points/requirements/challenges, with syntax. Coding a parser that would process said JSON string as a dialog seems rather simple to me (just some singleton that pops up in the foreground of the current scene). If I wanted to go hyper-correct on this, I might write a little app on the side that would handle dialog creation (so that the syntax is correct). Although, there may be an app like that already out there, somewhere...

Inventory system, chacter system, options menu? Same thing. Save system - same principle as well (with a lot more debugging/ potential for breaking apart, though).

E.g., even though one may not be super-familiar with Unity API, should provide a solid foundation.

You'll need a really good artist if you want to make 2D cartoony images of Mass Effect scenes.
Yeah, tell me about it. You may have some elegant algorithms beyond those basic prototype gray boxes, but gray boxes don't sell the game to the player.

About Insexity... yeah, played that one a bit. Don't want to sound like a dick here, but I was unimpressed. So-so animations, and an art style that weirds me out...

P.S.: right now, I'm just a talker. Don't take me too seriously. It might take me half a year to come up with something here, or it may never come to fruition at all. We'll see about that. All I'm saying is that Harkin deserves a game of his own.
 

Cyan

Member
Jul 25, 2017
126
551
You can make almost anything, as long as it doesn't directly 'hurt' EA's franchise - and you don't sell it. For patreon, you're not really selling the game, you're selling early access at best.... so typically patreon stuff is completely above the line, as long as you give it away for free within a reasonable amount of time. There are some exceptions of course.

Insexsity I wasn't so much referencing as a good game, so much as the type of animation independency that comes from it. (If you notice, all the limbs are independently animated, as opposed to just flipping through sprites)
 

FatBastard1337

New Member
Jan 11, 2018
8
5
Insexsity I wasn't so much referencing as a good game, so much as the type of animation independency that comes from it.
Sure! They call this technique embedded animation. I think you can override an animation with another animation (the simplest usage), apply an animation mask and then override (for specific body parts, as you are suggesting), or apply an animation modifier to an existing animation, in an additive manner, all while being able to adjust animation modifier strength.

Good for the likes of running and reloading a rifle at the same time. Or fucking some Miranda and slapping her ass to boot, lol.
 
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Egglock

Member
Oct 17, 2017
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what I'm terrified of is the world-building, the level design, the narrative of the story, the balancing, and most of all, the actual art and animations.
I'm going to assume, that your going solo here. I am not an artist, nor can I draw to save anyone's life, but hopefully what I learned can help push you in the right direction. Back when I was getting into drawing, I did some search on the following tags through youtube and google,
perspective drawing, sketching, coloring, color theory, grayscale to color, shading.

Everyone one has different ways of learning or picking up on drawing. My advice is don't try to replicate how one artist draws, but pick up on their techniques, and apply those techniques in a way that's comfortable for you. There is no shortcut, lots of patient and practice. Back then, when I was getting into it, I'd spend roughly 4-5 hours just listening to tutorials and sketching. Yes, listening/watching the same tutorials over and over. (The worst part, I was doing it with a mouse) Yeah, finally gave up after a month or so and focused on 3D modeling, as my future goals required me to know that stuff. Having a drawing tablet also helps. Take it from me, learning with a mouse = (heaps of cramp) index finger felt like it was going to fall off.


(Brace yourself, wall of text incoming)

Start by getting some concrete ideas down. Some foundation if you would call it.

Is it going to be heavily story driven?
by no means am I a professional writer or have the skill set to even be consider average, these are just some stuff I think about if I was to write a story.

- Character design (each character should feel unique), POI(Point of interest), backstory, plots, sub-plots.
- A mixture of genre (comedy, horror, mystery, suspense) find a combination that works and mix them.
- Convey feelings to your readers (if images are present the image should reflect the feeling regards to what is being said)
- A story that is compelling, and intrigues the player/reader.
- Tempo of the story
- Tempo of sex events (does it tie in, make sense with the story, is it moving too fast or too slow)
- Does it tie into your game play mechanics
- Writing a great story isn't easy, otherwise the world would have best selling authors all over.

Little story, heavily on mechanics
If so,
- Keep mechanics simple yet complex
Something like sneaking around knocking your targets unconscious and taking them back to your cell. Or tricking your target into taking certain liquid that renders them unconscious.
- Make it interesting
Don't make players go from point A to B just to trigger a certain event. Offer branching paths, give player choices/consequences (consequences shouldn't hard lock out any events, but have a soft lock where the player has to work harder for their mistakes)
- Avoid pointless grinding. Example, go here, click this button, get $$ rinse and repeat till you get x amount of $$ to buy the next event trigger.
- Have something fun and interesting in between event trigger
Let's say, the player is capped out on the captives they can have for the week, they can still scout, engage in trade negotiation, trade/sell. Take out their frustration by pounding the shit out them. (I do not encourage nor promote the act of non-consensual sex)
- Sex events shouldn't feel like a grind, but rather a reward. Can't take too long or be too short, this is a balance you're going to have to figure out.
- By leveling, do you mean the training they undergo to unlock certain poses? if so I'd personally wouldn't set it up like that, as it'll start to feel like a grind. Spamming the training button, day in and out just to receive a certain sex pose does not sound fun. How I would approach this, if that's what you intended, have a NPC that players hire/recuite and leave it to the NPC, Once the leveling/training is done give the player a notification.

As far as character leveling goes, the direction of your game, I don't see much use for it. Maybe building/structure levels? but characters? Unless you have the MC engaging in fights or mini games that requires a certain stats, then again that goes back to that grind aspect.

- As far as animation goes, I'm not too familiar with 2D animation, from my knowledge it should be a lot easier than 3D animation. I think (correct me if i'm wrong) is a copy/paste of the image and repositioning the pose.

It takes a lot of effort to make a great game. Just look at triple A titles, it takes years of development before release. It's not as easy as slapping some render image and flavor text and call it finished. Currently as of writing this wall of text, I've spent roughly over 6 months in my development (solo). Doing and learning as I move forward in my project, this includes everything from learning how to program, modeling, snipping sounds together, texturing, environment design. Do I regret it, absolutely not, because I enjoy what I'm investing my time into.

If something I wrote feels out of place or too broad or flat out didn't answer any of the questions, feel free to ask.
 
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FatBastard1337

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Jan 11, 2018
8
5
I'm going to assume, that your going solo here.
I'm not even going yet. If I ever come up with something tangible, that is yet to be seen.

But to answer your question: yea, going solo. Either that, or teaming up with a capable dude would be an option ( a lot of incompetents out there, though - may not be worth the headache).

Back when I was getting into drawing, I did some search on the following tags through youtube and google,
perspective drawing, sketching, coloring, color theory, grayscale to color, shading.
Regarding fundamentals, is good resource to get started. Then, if you are into piracy, there are professional training videos to be torrented out there (Gnomon, Udemy, Digital Tutors, and others).

I did some artistry a while back, so I kind of know what's up. For me, it was mostly landscape paining - some fun past-time that allowed for expressing creativity while also being permissive to messing up. This contrasts with paining hot sluts: with those sluts, you have to nail the appearance, as there is a very narrow definition of beautiful there (symmetrical faces, good ratios, bone/shape locations, emotions). So yeah, as I said, I'm worried there.

My advice is don't try to replicate how one artist draws, but pick up on their techniques, and apply those techniques in a way that's comfortable for you.
Oh, I'm looking for a standardized character workflow/stylization - one that would look good and contrasty on those backgrounds, one that would be relatively fast and fool-proof to produce.

I was doing it with a mouse
Ouch! For most of digital painting, a tablet is really a must. It has accuracy, pressure, tilt (only some models).

If you decide to go for a tablet sometime in the future, the classic Intous tablets are relatively cheap to get, at least used (Intuos 3/4/5, that has to be dirt cheap by now - and yet, totally sufficient).

The ultimate artist's tablet? I'd say forget Cintiq (or look for an older model), as they are overpriced. The ultimate artist's tablet, IMHO, is the M$ Surface Pro (again, getting, like the second/third generation should go easier on your wallet).

Either that... or if you stick with mouse, you can still do decent vector art. This stuff takes time, though.
Here, have an example of an artist working with vectors (it is girls getting it on with all sorts of disgusting aliens, lol): , .

Is it going to be heavily story driven?
Hmm. Not particularly (I hate those visual novels - talking, and talking, and you have to click through endless walls of text to get exactly nowhere). Still, having some kind of backstory, with emotions and all that, it would help a game move from bland to engaging. This, along with a well-crafted art style...

I guess that... Harkin gets fired from C-sec, and then he turns to a life a pimping and crime. Gradually, he gets all the Mass Effect girls on his side; the girls would perform a lot of mental gymnastics ("he's such a scumbag, but he's so hot..."); in the end, Harkin saves the day - like a true antihero.

Something like sneaking around knocking your targets unconscious and taking them back to your cell. Or tricking your target into taking certain liquid that renders them unconscious.
Sounds like some good minigame/passtime! Harkin goes into a club where he uses his charms to hook up some slut; he roofies her and/or gives her coke, has his way with her, and then he sells her to Vorcha, for profit, lol.

Don't make players go from point A to B just to trigger a certain event. Offer branching paths, give player choices/consequences (consequences shouldn't hard lock out any events, but have a soft lock where the player has to work harder for their mistakes)
Yeah. The way I'm thinking about it, it would be pimping in the universe. At some point, the player would be allowed to travel freely across space stations; also, if the player's shady business blows up in one place, they would have to lay low elsewhere for a while.

That, and an illegal market for drugs and enslaved sluts (some places would pay higher rates for some goods, etc.).

By leveling, do you mean the training they undergo to unlock certain poses? if so I'd personally wouldn't set it up like that, as it'll start to feel like a grind. Spamming the training button, day in and out just to receive a certain sex pose does not sound fun. How I would approach this, if that's what you intended, have a NPC that players hire/recuite and leave it to the NPC, Once the leveling/training is done give the player a notification.
I'm thinking, like, having some 70:30 unlocked:locked scenes ratio, at the beginning, to give a reasonable incentive for leveling up. That, or certain girls being willing to do certain scenes...

To spark things up, I guess there may be different types of sex scenes with different purpose. A training scene, where Harkin fucks his sluts to gain pimp respect. A standard scene, where a slut satisfies a client for a payoff and service reputation boost. A club scene, where the purpose is to give the best show...

Making some of those scenes optional (as in happening in the background while the players either goes on with other errands or decides to intervene) might aid in dealing with potential repetitiveness. That, along with a fuss-free UI.

As far as character leveling goes, the direction of your game, I don't see much use for it. Maybe building/structure levels? but characters? Unless you have the MC engaging in fights or mini games that requires a certain stats, then again that goes back to that grind aspect.
Well, two things: 1) look up simbro (not the awfulness that is going on these days, but, say, version 2.3, or 2.4), and 2), here is a .

Now, what about it? In Simbro, by having sex, these sluts gain experience. Then, they can level up - which allows them to have more sex per day, to charge extra, to satisfy more demanding clients (beautiful girls, muscle girls, smart girls etc.)

As for Harkin, well, he could do more than that. He could charm sluts, negotiate better deals, build those structures, etc.

Bear with me: I'm thinking about separating the game into multiple layers:
  • Space travel layer (your own ship, going from one space station to another). If ambitious, this could be extended by space smuggling and encounters.
  • Space station layer: isometric camera, grid layout, walking around the actual levels. Here, Harkin would cut deals with various low-lifes, enter shops, buy/sell stuff, pimp his hos. If ambitious, a simple (turn-based?) combat system could be attached to this.
  • Fucking layer: where the bangin' happens.
So if there is such a thing as the space station layer, there would be quite some use for leveling/skills. E.g. some sort of lockpicking/ breaking into places, a speech skill, and, if implemented, combat HP/shields (+ inventory/crafting system). If the design of this is done right, there you have some non-linear progression to boot.

You did mention the grind aspect, as if leveling up were a bad thing. Sure, it might. But then, have you considered the use of this as a choke point for story progression? A total wimp can't do heroic deeds, and a sense of accomplishment can be interpreted as a positive reinforcement to play/enjoy the game. If that makes sense....

As far as animation goes, I'm not too familiar with 2D animation, from my knowledge it should be a lot easier than 3D animation. I think (correct me if i'm wrong) is a copy/paste of the image and repositioning the pose.
Sure, more or less. You'd draw the character from a certain angle (usually front, side, 45 degrees to the side), in Photoshop, using layers - one layer per body part. Then you'd grab all the parts, assemble them in Unity, connect them through a bone structure, define the deformers, and animate the stuff. Any clothing or whathever, that would be appended on the body parts.

If you have a good animation going on, they you can reuse it while swapping body parts/characters/clothing (within reason, of course).

Doing and learning as I move forward in my project, this includes everything from learning how to program, modeling, snipping sounds together, texturing, environment design. Do I regret it, absolutely not, because I enjoy what I'm investing my time into.
Ah, cool. I think I'm in for the same thing (that, and I also wound't mind making some extra cash out of it on the side).
 
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Egglock

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Oct 17, 2017
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I'm not even going yet. If I ever come up with something tangible, that is yet to be seen.

But to answer your question: yea, going solo. Either that, or teaming up with a capable dude would be an option ( a lot of incompetents out there, though - may not be worth the headache).
Well why the hell not? Unless there are reason preventing you. As far as I read from what you wrote, you have something tangible to work with. As far as teaming up, yeah... unless you want to deal with management along side development, I'd avoid it. Maybe seek out freelancer to fill in spots that needs a bit of touch up?

Regarding fundamentals, is good resource to get started.
Cool, thanks for the link.

Ouch! For most of digital painting, a tablet is really a must. It has accuracy, pressure, tilt (only some models).
I agree, sadly don't have the $$ for tablets. Don't have any use for it at the moment as I'm doing all my stuff in 3D.

This contrasts with paining hot sluts: with those sluts, you have to nail the appearance, as there is a very narrow definition of beautiful there (symmetrical faces, good ratios, bone/shape locations, emotions). So yeah, as I said, I'm worried there.
I agree, as my drawing is shit and I know how hard it can be to get it just right (my attempts to draw females during my early days ended up looking like mauled mutated abominations). But worrying about it isn't going to get any where. Best to just go with what you can manage and gradually improve along the way.

Bear with me: I'm thinking about separating the game into multiple layers:
  • Space travel layer (your own ship, going from one space station to another). If ambitious, this could be extended by space smuggling and encounters.
  • Space station layer: isometric camera, grid layout, walking around the actual levels. Here, Harkin would cut deals with various low-lifes, enter shops, buy/sell stuff, pimp his hos. If ambitious, a simple (turn-based?) combat system could be attached to this.
  • Fucking layer: where the bangin' happens.
So if there is such a thing as the space station layer, there would be quite some use for leveling/skills. E.g. some sort of lockpicking/ breaking into places, a speech skill, and, if implemented, combat HP/shields (+ inventory/crafting system). If the design of this is done right, there you have some non-linear progression to boot.
Sounds like a good starting point. Though, that's going to be a heap of work considering your implementing some form of management part also.

You did mention the grind aspect, as if leveling up were a bad thing. Sure, it might. But then, have you considered the use of this as a choke point for story progression? A total wimp can't do heroic deeds, and a sense of accomplishment can be interpreted as a positive reinforcement to play/enjoy the game.
Not that the grind aspect is bad, I agree it being a form of choke point for story progression, what I meant by it being bad, is if the "need x amount to trigger next event" is placed in the wrong point of story progression, or just flat out prevents the player from doing everything else.

Sure, more or less. You'd draw the character from a certain angle (usually front, side, 45 degrees to the side), in Photoshop, using layers - one layer per body part.
Sounds like a painful task.

As far as I can see, you have a solid plan going for yourself. So what's stopping you from going into development?
 

Tompte

Member
Dec 22, 2017
214
152
My advice is to start with what you know, then build on that.

If you have no experience at all, then you need to learn the basics. Everyone does. Once you know your way around a tool, such as Unity, any idea or sudden inspiration will be put into context and you can more easily rationalize what your next step should be.

My second advice is that you probably won't finish your first project(s). That's perfectly fine. Set a goal, work towards it. Ideas for other projects will come. Let them come.