VN Ren'Py Discovering Herself [v1.0] [msTeph!]

[msTeph]

First of all, (belated) congratulations on your first (?) release and thank you for sharing your project with us.

I haven't tried Discovering Herself yet (I'm downloading it right now), but I wanted to make two remarks:


1. (Version number) nomenclature

It's common in the software industry (not only in the adult games sector ) for a finished product to be released with the version number 1.0.

Since Discovering Herself is (I assume) not yet a completed VN, but "only" a first version, it would be better to name your version 0.1 - and the subsequent versions 0.2, 0.3, etc. - until your VN is completed as version 1.0 - or you have released more than 10 versions (in that case you'd continue with 1.1, 1.2, etc.).

In the case of bug fixing, the revised versions would be named either 0.1.1 or 0.1a, etc.

That way you avoid people coming into this thread having exaggerated expectations:
"Oh, a 1.0 - that means it's completed or already has a crazy amount of content."


2. Image format and file size

I see that your first version is a whopping 1.15 GB - that's a lot and means either that your first version has an extensive amount of content or (more likely) that you are using an image format that is quite taxing in terms of file size.

Whilst this is not a major problem at the moment, it could become one in the future.

Imagine your project in one or two years from now after 10 releases with 10 times the amount of images and maybe even animations - your VN will easily become 10, 15 or even 20 GB in size.

Apart from the memory required, many people (especially those with poorer internet) will be discouraged from giving your VN a try.

Sure, there are always helpful people around who are willing to make and share compressed game versions with a fraction of the original file size, but I wouldn't count on it.

It's therefore better to switch to a more efficient image format now to prevent these future problems.

As far as I know, webp is the preferred image format over jpeg and png (because it saves space) - I'm no specialist though, but I'm sure there are more experienced people around here who can give useful advice in this regard.


I hope my comments don't come across as patronising - that's not my intention.

If you want to stick to your nomenclature or image format, that's perfectly fine, too.

Cheers!

Thank you so much for the input!!

When it comes to the nomenclature, I went with 1.0 because Discovering Herself is technically finished, and the small continuation I'm doing would be its own separate thing. That way whatever changes I'm going to make (e.g. removing the black bars or changing the images resolution) wouldn't clash with the previous release. So when the cotinuation releases I was planing on going with 1.1, or PART 2, or something along those lines (I've seen some releases that specify part or chapter plus the vX.X).

This is the exception though, moving forward with whatever project I decide to go, I'll be using the usual v0.X until a final v1.0.

Now, related to the images. I do have in mind probably changing to webp moving forward, but I still have to read a bit more if there's a potential loss of quality or any other issues. Again, part of the reason as to why the continuation will be a separate download, I don't really want to cause any troubles with changing image format mid-way.

 

[Casual Voyeur]

Thank you for the explanation.

I've since read through Discovering Herself - and at the end of the current version you also point out that it's a short story.
Up until this point, I thought it was just a first release (0.1) that would be followed by many more (0.2, 0.3, etc.) to continue Laura's story.

So, you are of course absolutely right to label the current version 1.0 - sorry for the misunderstanding.

~

I was toying with the idea of writing a review, but am waiting until Discovering Herself is completed.

Nevertheless, I would still like to give some feedback (if that's okay).
I'll limit myself mainly to the "technical" stuff, as otherwise I won't have much left to talk about in a future review.

First of all:
For a first release, your short story is really good - you prove that you have mastered all the necessary tools (writing, Ren'Py and Daz3D) enough to create an appealing VN.

Personally, I especially like the writing, which is often criminally neglected in other adult VNs (because the creators lack experience or skill - or both).

It's also nice to see that you put a lot of emphasis on correct spelling.
I only found a single spelling mistake:

Spoiler: Typo

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Beyond that, you have a good cinematic eye (camera angles, close-ups, playing with blurs, etc.). Excellent.

To be honest, the images and story go really well together.
The opening credits, the way the story starts off-screen - it's all of a piece and has something of a movie feel to it.
So I agree with you that this seems to be a really good medium to express yourself.

I'd also like to make a very basic point that it's wise to start with a small project (a short story) - I'm sure you've gained a lot of experience in the process that will stand you in good stead for a larger future project.

Many creators of adult VNs / games start with a grandiose idea (and little experience), only to realise after a couple of updates that they've got bogged down and give up in frustration - or they start to work out the kinks (eh... not *those* kinks!) by remaking their VN / game.
This takes time and nerves and unfortunately also all to often ends in frustration or abandonment instead of the joys of being creative.

But back to Discovering Herself.

Personally, I find the main menu a little (too) plain, like something is missing.
Maybe the Discovering Herself logo (which is simple, but beautiful by the way) - although I understand that you only want to introduce it (in true cinema style) during the opening sequence.
Alternatively, maybe some unobtrusive music (as far as I know, there is royalty-free music on the internet that many VN creators use) or muffled city sounds that can be heard through the open window - although I (once again) understand that you only want to introduce them during the opening sequence.

I really like the (discreet) sound effects by the way.

I would also omit any explanations regarding the screen bars ("Just a heads up:").
Apart from the fact that it impairs immersion: This is your work. Find out what you like and stick to it.
You implemented them for a reason (I assume to enhance the cinematic effect - and that's a perfectly valid reason).
So, don't explain yourself. People will understand - and if they don't: It's their problem, not yours.

That's another issue with some adult game or story creators - they try too hard to please their audience, that in the process they put their own preferences, wishes, even their own creativity on the back burner.
Don't do that. Do your thing - and the right audience will come along.

Ask 3 different people and get 4 different answers.
I mean - your current poll is a prime example, right?

Okay, I just realised that I basically told you: "Don't listen to me."
Oh well - make of that what you will...

I personally miss a rollback function, which is usually available in Ren'Py VNs, but has been deactivated in yours.
Some creators intentionally disable rollback to prevent readers from "cheesing" their way around choices (to give choices more weight), but since your VN doesn't have any choices, I honestly see no reason to disable this feature.
Sometimes - especially as a non-native speaker - you want to jump back in a conversation to better understand what has been said.

What also bothers me is that sometimes, when you tap / click to get to the next screen, the screen goes black - and then you have to tap / click again to get to the next screen.
As far as I know, there are commands in Ren'Py that make the screen fade to black and - after a certain delay - automatically take you to the next screen.
This saves the reader from double tapping / clicking.
I know - it's not a big deal, but still a bit annoying to be honest.

I like the text box - it's unobtrusive and still ensures good legibility.

I found it a bit difficult to distinguish between spoken speech and inner monologue.
Some creators mark thoughts with italics, others with asterisks or brackets.

Finally, I strongly advise against splitting up your work by making the continuation / epilogue (the 1.1) a separate download.
I've seen several projects where creators have done that - and it wasn't pretty.

I would recommend finishing Discovering Herself and keeping the current image format (and also the screen bars) for now, and then publishing your next (new) VN with a more efficient image format (and either with or without screen bars) - or alternatively revising Discovering Yourself and already switching completely to the new image format.

But I don't think it's a good idea to tear up an ongoing project.
Imagine you want to buy a novel - and instead of a single book you get a book and a booklet labelled "epilogue".
I just don't find it aesthetically pleasing, but that's just my personal preference (although I assume a lot of people share my sentiment).

Okay, I think that's enough feedback for now.
Sorry for the wall of text - as you can see I'm unable to be brief.

 

[msTeph]

Thank you for the explanation.

I've since read through Discovering Herself - and at the end of the current version you also point out that it's a short story.
Up until this point, I thought it was just a first release (0.1) that would be followed by many more (0.2, 0.3, etc.) to continue Laura's story.

So, you are of course absolutely right to label the current version 1.0 - sorry for the misunderstanding.

~

I was toying with the idea of writing a review, but am waiting until Discovering Herself is completed.

Nevertheless, I would still like to give some feedback (if that's okay).
I'll limit myself mainly to the "technical" stuff, as otherwise I won't have much left to talk about in a future review.

First of all:
For a first release, your short story is really good - you prove that you have mastered all the necessary tools (writing, Ren'Py and Daz3D) enough to create an appealing VN.

Personally, I especially like the writing, which is often criminally neglected in other adult VNs (because the creators lack experience or skill - or both).

It's also nice to see that you put a lot of emphasis on correct spelling.
I only found a single spelling mistake:

Spoiler: Typo

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Beyond that, you have a good cinematic eye (camera angles, close-ups, playing with blurs, etc.). Excellent.

To be honest, the images and story go really well together.
The opening credits, the way the story starts off-screen - it's all of a piece and has something of a movie feel to it.
So I agree with you that this seems to be a really good medium to express yourself.

I'd also like to make a very basic point that it's wise to start with a small project (a short story) - I'm sure you've gained a lot of experience in the process that will stand you in good stead for a larger future project.

Many creators of adult VNs / games start with a grandiose idea (and little experience), only to realise after a couple of updates that they've got bogged down and give up in frustration - or they start to work out the kinks (eh... not *those* kinks!) by remaking their VN / game.
This takes time and nerves and unfortunately also all to often ends in frustration or abandonment instead of the joys of being creative.

But back to Discovering Herself.

Personally, I find the main menu a little (too) plain, like something is missing.
Maybe the Discovering Herself logo (which is simple, but beautiful by the way) - although I understand that you only want to introduce it (in true cinema style) during the opening sequence.
Alternatively, maybe some unobtrusive music (as far as I know, there is royalty-free music on the internet that many VN creators use) or muffled city sounds that can be heard through the open window - although I (once again) understand that you only want to introduce them during the opening sequence.

I really like the (discreet) sound effects by the way.

I would also omit any explanations regarding the screen bars ("Just a heads up:").
Apart from the fact that it impairs immersion: This is your work. Find out what you like and stick to it.
You implemented them for a reason (I assume to enhance the cinematic effect - and that's a perfectly valid reason).
So, don't explain yourself. People will understand - and if they don't: It's their problem, not yours.

That's another issue with some adult game or story creators - they try too hard to please their audience, that in the process they put their own preferences, wishes, even their own creativity on the back burner.
Don't do that. Do your thing - and the right audience will come along.

Ask 3 different people and get 4 different answers.
I mean - your current poll is a prime example, right?

Okay, I just realised that I basically told you: "Don't listen to me."
Oh well - make of that what you will...

I personally miss a rollback function, which is usually available in Ren'Py VNs, but has been deactivated in yours.
Some creators intentionally disable rollback to prevent readers from "cheesing" their way around choices (to give choices more weight), but since your VN doesn't have any choices, I honestly see no reason to disable this feature.
Sometimes - especially as a non-native speaker - you want to jump back in a conversation to better understand what has been said.

What also bothers me is that sometimes, when you tap / click to get to the next screen, the screen goes black - and then you have to tap / click again to get to the next screen.
As far as I know, there are commands in Ren'Py that make the screen fade to black and - after a certain delay - automatically take you to the next screen.
This saves the reader from double tapping / clicking.
I know - it's not a big deal, but still a bit annoying to be honest.

I like the text box - it's unobtrusive and still ensures good legibility.

I found it a bit difficult to distinguish between spoken speech and inner monologue.
Some creators mark thoughts with italics, others with asterisks or brackets.

Finally, I strongly advise against splitting up your work by making the continuation / epilogue (the 1.1) a separate download.
I've seen several projects where creators have done that - and it wasn't pretty.

I would recommend finishing Discovering Herself and keeping the current image format (and also the screen bars) for now, and then publishing your next (new) VN with a more efficient image format (and either with or without screen bars) - or alternatively revising Discovering Yourself and already switching completely to the new image format.

But I don't think it's a good idea to tear up an ongoing project.
Imagine you want to buy a novel - and instead of a single book you get a book and a booklet labelled "epilogue".
I just don't find it aesthetically pleasing, but that's just my personal preference (although I assume a lot of people share my sentiment).

Okay, I think that's enough feedback for now.
Sorry for the wall of text - as you can see I'm unable to be brief.

Wow, that's quite a hefty read. I don't think I can go over everything, so I'll just touch on what stood out: I'm surprised you mentioned that there isn't rollback on the game, because when I tried it on PC and Mac, there was rollback as well as the "history" tab in the menu, I just hid the quick menu as I consider it would clash with the black bars. I'll definitely take more care with that in the future.

Regarding the inner monologues, I thought the italics would be enough. Or do you mean that the italics weren't showing? Because when I tested the build the italics were there:

Spoiler: Italics

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In any case, I'l take a look into that as well. Also, I do agree that having the player click to the next screen when it goes black might be tedious. At first I went into it with the idea that the player would just click over the transition anyway because it was pitch black, but I'll probably keep it there next time.

Now, with regards to the big thing: the continuation/update. I always envisioned Discovering Herself as its own thing, with the continuation being more of a "sequel" rather than a "next episode" (I don't know if I'm explaining myself correctly here). But the reason as to why I didn't mark this as "completed" and make the continuation be its own entry is because I assumed it would be more confusing. Instead of seeing it like a book like you mentioned, I saw it more as a comic book issue that evenutally got a second one that isn't a immediate continuation of the previous events, but it's still part of the same author's run (again, not sure if I'm explaining myself correctly here).

If I'm going to plant my feet about something is about the conitnuation being its own separate thing (also because I consider it'll make more sense story-wise). So my question now becomes: Should I keep my original idea of putting the continuation on this page, or should I mark this as completed and make a separate page?

In any case, I genuinely appreaciate the deep insights you've provided!

 

[Casual Voyeur]

Sorry about the "hefty read".
I'll try to be more brief (and fail magnificently )...

~

On the subject of "rollback":

Before my read-through, I checked the preferences, and since I didn't see the usual

Spoiler: "rollback side" options

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

(screenshot taken from a different VN), I was under the impression that there is no rollback in Discovering Herself, but now that you mention it, I checked again - and you are of course right that there is indeed rollback.

However, I personally prefer the "click on the left side of the screen" rollback to the mouse wheel rollback (somehow it's more convenient on a notebook - or maybe I'm just used to it).

And you're right: There is also the "history" tab - although I honestly never use it (okay, rather: forget that it even exists).

I think it's a good decision that you've disabled the quick menu.
As you wrote - it would clash with the on-screen bars, and since you're going for a cinematic feel, it would only detract from the overall (clean) impression.

~

Oh, the italics for the inner monologue are showing - I personally just found it a bit difficult to distinguish between normal text and italics, but that's probably just me. Don't mind me.

~

I think it depends entirely on how long the transitions are.
Sure, if a transition is 5s long, then people will probably (impatiently) tap / click over it, but if it's relatively short (2s?) then it's fine and quite convenient to not have to double tap / click.

~

As for the nomenclature:

I think I understand better now what you're getting at.

Is it along the lines of:
"Discovering Herself. Part One: Outing"
"Discovering Herself. Part Two: My New Life" (or alternatively "How Things Came to Be" - personally, I would find both a flashback at how Laura realised she's into women and a look into the future interesting)?

And yes, I'm not going to lie - it *is* a bit confusing, but that's mostly because it's hard to gauge what you have in store for the continuation / epilogue.

Ultimately, both solutions are possible:
You could label the current short story as completed and publish the continuation in a new thread - or keep both parts here.

How you deal with this depends crucially on the extent to which the continuation / epilogue is linked to the current story - and only you know the answer to that.

If you decide to post both parts here in this thread, I would recommend making it more obvious through the nomenclature - perhaps as I've just suggested above (if my interpretation of what you're striving for is reasonably accurate).

 

[damnedfrog]

Hi msTeph.

I have just played your game, and I'm sorry to point out it has a major flaw...
It's too short
But I understand why you want to make a small game as your first. It's a good idea.
You were able to finish it, which is really a great achievement, given all the games that were never finished here.
I just hope we will see more of Laura adventures in the world of Sappho .

Some little issues, but nothing major.

1. At the end of the daydreaming scene (where Laura imagine how will be her first sexual relation with a woman), we can see her ex peeping on them. But it's a flash that doesn't even last a second.
2. In some renders, there is a difference of coloration between some fingers and the rest of the hand.
   
   Spoiler

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3. It's seem to me there a little inconsistency, when Eve is seated on the county and Laura is about to remove her panties.
   Eve said "Wait" and puts her hand on Laura's, like she want to stop her.
   But the next pic, Eve doesn't have her panties anymore.

I hope I'm sound not to rough on this.
Like I say, it just some minor details.
I enjoyed your game very much.
I like the like the little animations (like when Laura tilt her head a little).
Or the change of focus between 2 pics (like when Eve notice the open wine bottle on the county).
It make the whole more lively.

I can't wait for the next chapter!

 

[msTeph]

Sorry about the "hefty read".
I'll try to be more brief (and fail magnificently )...

~

On the subject of "rollback":

Before my read-through, I checked the preferences, and since I didn't see the usual

Spoiler: "rollback side" options

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

(screenshot taken from a different VN), I was under the impression that there is no rollback in Discovering Herself, but now that you mention it, I checked again - and you are of course right that there is indeed rollback.

However, I personally prefer the "click on the left side of the screen" rollback to the mouse wheel rollback (somehow it's more convenient on a notebook - or maybe I'm just used to it).

And you're right: There is also the "history" tab - although I honestly never use it (okay, rather: forget that it even exists).

I think it's a good decision that you've disabled the quick menu.
As you wrote - it would clash with the on-screen bars, and since you're going for a cinematic feel, it would only detract from the overall (clean) impression.

~

Oh, the italics for the inner monologue are showing - I personally just found it a bit difficult to distinguish between normal text and italics, but that's probably just me. Don't mind me.

~

I think it depends entirely on how long the transitions are.
Sure, if a transition is 5s long, then people will probably (impatiently) tap / click over it, but if it's relatively short (2s?) then it's fine and quite convenient to not have to double tap / click.

~

As for the nomenclature:

I think I understand better now what you're getting at.

Is it along the lines of:
"Discovering Herself. Part One: Outing"
"Discovering Herself. Part Two: My New Life" (or alternatively "How Things Came to Be" - personally, I would find both a flashback at how Laura realised she's into women and a look into the future interesting)?

And yes, I'm not going to lie - it *is* a bit confusing, but that's mostly because it's hard to gauge what you have in store for the continuation / epilogue.

Ultimately, both solutions are possible:
You could label the current short story as completed and publish the continuation in a new thread - or keep both parts here.

How you deal with this depends crucially on the extent to which the continuation / epilogue is linked to the current story - and only you know the answer to that.

If you decide to post both parts here in this thread, I would recommend making it more obvious through the nomenclature - perhaps as I've just suggested above (if my interpretation of what you're striving for is reasonably accurate).

Thank you for the continous feedback! Regarding rollback, I'll probably see about enabling the feature on the game menu (quick menu will most likely remain hidden). And yeah, I'll probably keep both releases on this thread and making things a bit more clear with a disclaimer about the downloads.

 

[msTeph]

Hi msTeph.

I have just played your game, and I'm sorry to point out it has a major flaw...
It's too short
But I understand why you want to make a small game as your first. It's a good idea.
You were able to finish it, which is really a great achievement, given all the games that were never finished here.
I just hope we will see more of Laura adventures in the world of Sappho .

Some little issues, but nothing major.

1. At the end of the daydreaming scene (where Laura imagine how will be her first sexual relation with a woman), we can see her ex peeping on them. But it's a flash that doesn't even last a second.
2. In some renders, there is a difference of coloration between some fingers and the rest of the hand.
   
   Spoiler

   You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
3. It's seem to me there a little inconsistency, when Eve is seated on the county and Laura is about to remove her panties.
   Eve said "Wait" and puts her hand on Laura's, like she want to stop her.
   But the next pic, Eve doesn't have her panties anymore.

I hope I'm sound not to rough on this.
Like I say, it just some minor details.
I enjoyed your game very much.
I like the like the little animations (like when Laura tilt her head a little).
Or the change of focus between 2 pics (like when Eve notice the open wine bottle on the county).
It make the whole more lively.

I can't wait for the next chapter!

This is indeed a short one! It serves more as a way to put into practise what I'd been learning, I figured jumping straight into a bigger story would be too overwhelming considering I had little to no experience. Regarding your thoughts:

- Yeah! It's meant to be that way, I'm pretty sure I gave it like 0.2 seconds or something like that. It was more of a "blink-and-you"ll-miss-it" kind of thing, where he is more of a shadow hanging over her. In fact, that's why the figure has no discernible features beside the eyes, even in her fantasies Laura can feel his eyes on her, something that clearly affects her.

- That's a wetness map! I will plead guilty to some inconsistencies with it :C When I was rendering I sometimes forgot to turn it off/on depending on the actions, something I didn't realize until I was coding. It was supposed to be something that only showed up when they played with their fingers, but they stayed on for far longer. It was hard to keep track of because they don't show up in texture mode, so I usually forgot about the texture being on.

- At first there was supposed to be a render of Laura pulling down Eve's panties while kissing her thighs. But I just couldn't get it to look right, so I ended up cutting it. I kept the "wait" line because I like the idea of Eve guiding her through this experience while allowing herself to enjoy it at the fullest.

Still, thank you so much for your comment! I actually enjoy talking about things related to the work, so I don't want anyone to feel dissuaded from asking questions

 

[Casual Voyeur]

I really appreciate it when a developer pays attention to details like fingers that are visibly wet from fingering - unfortunately, such details are all too often neglected / forgotten.

For me, the very idea of dry-fingering someone without sufficient lubrication is extremely repulsive - even painful.

Of course, you can argue about how long the moisture is visible on the fingers (and renders) - but I'm happy to leave the scientific research into this question to others.


Speaking of intimate scenes - personally, I would have liked these scenes to be longer, with more build-up and sensual eroticism:

• a little restraint (blushing!),
• prolonged, passionate kissing and petting,
• more sensory impressions ("you taste / smell / feel..."),
• mutual feedback ("do you like that?", "yes, just like that!"),
• more teasing instead of... um... diving straight into her vagina (e.g. kissing and stroking her thighs, licking her clit),
• longer & more intense fingering (first with one finger, then with two fingers - also deeper and intensifying / quickening movements).

Please don't get me wrong: I like this short story and am aware that it's only a first release.
I also understand that intimate scenes are just that: intimate and therefore very personal - what I personally prefer doesn't necessarily match what the developer likes.
If the developer has other preferences (or doesn't feel comfortable putting more focus on intimate scenes), that's perfectly fine, too.

Sheesh, I've already given so much feedback that I'm running out of content for a future review...

 

[msTeph]

I really appreciate it when a developer pays attention to details like fingers that are visibly wet from fingering - unfortunately, such details are all too often neglected / forgotten.

For me, the very idea of dry-fingering someone without sufficient lubrication is extremely repulsive - even painful.

Of course, you can argue about how long the moisture is visible on the fingers (and renders) - but I'm happy to leave the scientific research into this question to others.


Speaking of intimate scenes - personally, I would have liked these scenes to be longer, with more build-up and sensual eroticism:

• a little restraint (blushing!),
• prolonged, passionate kissing and petting,
• more sensory impressions ("you taste / smell / feel..."),
• mutual feedback ("do you like that?", "yes, just like that!"),
• more teasing instead of... um... diving straight into her vagina (e.g. kissing and stroking her thighs, licking her clit),
• longer & more intense fingering (first with one finger, then with two fingers - also deeper and intensifying / quickening movements).

Please don't get me wrong: I like this short story and am aware that it's only a first release.
I also understand that intimate scenes are just that: intimate and therefore very personal - what I personally prefer doesn't necessarily match what the developer likes.
If the developer has other preferences (or doesn't feel comfortable putting more focus on intimate scenes), that's perfectly fine, too.

Sheesh, I've already given so much feedback that I'm running out of content for a future review...

Appreciate the ideas! I guess I'm still trying to find my "style" with regards to the sex scenes, trying to settle on a good balance of different things instead of it simply being just one thing until some climaxes. Oh, and don't worry about how much feedback has been said, I'm thankful, and hopefully the update will give enough to warrant some more thoughts!