VN Critique My Writing - Introduction to VN I'm working on

[JWGameDev]

Hi all,

I've started writing my own erotic VN, and I wanted to get some opinions on my writing before I commit much further (no naughty content yet). Besides general writing elements like tone, grammar, word choice, etc., I'm trying to figure out if my game will work better with a second-person perspective or not. I'm wary of "forcing" my perspective onto the player, but whenever I write, it just feels most naturally to me to write in second-person.

Anywho, for some context, this is the beginning of the game where your friend is trying to motivate you to ask out the most reserved, unapproachable girl in school. The first part is almost all dialogue, and the end is a narration section, which is to be played over a CG of said girl.

I'm going to post the script in a couple different ways. First is the slightly modified original text documents that has all of the branching paths in one cascade. The others will be individual dialogue paths that could be taken by the player. Hopefully that will cover the bases and make things easier to read. Also, let me know if there is a better method of formatting or sharing writing, in case this post ends up looking messy.

Have fun reading, and if you don't, please tell me why! I really want to know where my writing is off so I can fix it and create something better.

Spoiler: Original

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Spoiler: Confident Path

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Spoiler: Doubtful Path

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[Eyesday]

I guess the problem for me to read it and appreciate it, is that there are only dialogues and not a previous description of the scenario and characters in the scene, you know? Ahm, how can I say it... It feels like a SMS Chat, which is good, I presume, but without a preview of "What is going on in this act?" we can't really define if it's good or not.

I'm not a native English speaker, so I can't help you with grammar and so...

 

[JWGameDev]

I guess the problem for me to read it and appreciate it, is that there are only dialogues and not a previous description of the scenario and characters in the scene, you know? Ahm, how can I say it... It feels like a SMS Chat, which is good, I presume, but without a preview of "What is going on in this act?" we can't really define if it's good or not.

Hmm, I think I see what you're saying. I can see how it could feel a bit confusing or even just empty since you don't already have the characters and scenario in mind like I have them. Also, no visuals. So let me give some more of the scenario for more context:

This is the first day of senior year for you and your supportive friend, Brandon. Since freshman year, you've had the reputation of "class virgin", and so, as Brandon is explaining in this intro, you have to make a statement to prove you're no longer a loser with the ladies. And that statement is to ask out the most unapproachable girl in school, Hanako Tanaka, also known as the Waning Crescent because of her crescent-shaped hair and cold/distant nature.

Not sure if there is much more context than that to be honest, and since this is supposed to be the beginning of the game, I tried to tell all of this stuff through the dialogue itself. Perhaps I can add an opening narration or mini-story (or an opening reel, if I wanna be unrealistically ambitious) that gives a bit of backstory before just dropping you right into the action.

I also tried to avoid narration and just use dialogue except for the CG scene because it is second-person (at least for the time being) and I thought it wouldn't add much content to the scene, especially visual things since the finished product has the visual components on screen.

 

[Eyesday]

Hmm, I think I see what you're saying. I can see how it could feel a bit confusing or even just empty since you don't already have the characters and scenario in mind like I have them. Also, no visuals. So let me give some more of the scenario for more context:

This is the first day of senior year for you and your supportive friend, Brandon. Since freshman year, you've had the reputation of "class virgin", and so, as Brandon is explaining in this intro, you have to make a statement to prove you're no longer a loser with the ladies. And that statement is to ask out the most unapproachable girl in school, Hanako Tanaka, also known as the Waning Crescent because of her crescent-shaped hair and cold/distant nature.

Not sure if there is much more context than that to be honest, and since this is supposed to be the beginning of the game, I tried to tell all of this stuff through the dialogue itself. Perhaps I can add an opening narration or mini-story (or an opening reel, if I wanna be unrealistically ambitious) that gives a bit of backstory before just dropping you right into the action.

I also tried to avoid narration and just use dialogue except for the CG scene because it is second-person (at least for the time being) and I thought it wouldn't add much content to the scene, especially visual things since the finished product has the visual components on screen.

Nope, the problem isn't in the lack of exposition of the scenario IN-Game. Here, in fact, we need those details but on the game, you'll show all of this with others tools like the CG. And thank you, this briefing helped a lot. It is short and honestly, I can't say much about it. Looks normal, neutral. There's nothing special or dangerous that could make your plot a mess, you know?

 

[JWGameDev]

Nope, the problem isn't in the lack of exposition of the scenario IN-Game. Here, in fact, we need those details but on the game, you'll show all of this with others tools like the CG. And thank you, this briefing helped a lot. It is short and honestly, I can't say much about it. Looks normal, neutral. There's nothing special or dangerous that could make your plot a mess, you know?

That's fair, and a neutral response is still a valuable response. Honestly, it's simply that this is my first VN and it's in its starting stages, so I'm eager (perhaps too eager) to get something out there and in front of peoples' faces. But thanks again for your input. It might not seem like much, but it's given me some stuff to chew on, which is better than if I had no response at all!

 

[Eyesday]

That's fair, and a neutral response is still a valuable response. Honestly, it's simply that this is my first VN and it's in its starting stages, so I'm eager (perhaps too eager) to get something out there and in front of peoples' faces. But thanks again for your input. It might not seem like much, but it's given me some stuff to chew on, which is better than if I had no response at all!

Just a tip: Right a personality for those secondary characters and write their interactions with the MC with them on your mind. For example, if his friend is a cool guy and all of this, build his dialogues with those "cool guy talk". If the girl his talking is shy, follow that rule.

One of the worse things that happens in games is that almost every secondary character gets his personality changed according to the will of the writer - and that's bad. Really bad.

 

[JWGameDev]

One of the worse things that happens in games is that almost every secondary character gets his personality changed according to the will of the writer - and that's bad. Really bad.

Good point! I've been keeping character consistency in mind when thinking about some of the later plot points and fetishes I want to add. For example, I don't think Brandon would be the type of character that would randomly get down with his friend being incestuous or smth.

 

[aphrodisia]

A few important points that stuck out to me:

You use some slang here that I very rarely hear real people use. This results in a bit of "cringe" or at least an unnatural sound. Example: "show these cats" "big dick energy (I've only ever seen this typed, not EVER said by a human being)"

There are a few grammar and spelling mistakes throughout that an editor could fix. Examples: "you give each other dap" (I'm assuming you meant "you give each other a dab", but this is pretty cringe too, honestly. Maybe I'm getting old~)

Based on the last paragraph where you're describing Tanaka, I can tell this type of descriptive writing is your strong point compared to dialogue. Don't be afraid to bring that artistic flair into the rest of your writing more. Not everyone talks like a super bro.

 

[JWGameDev]

You use some slang here that I very rarely hear real people use. This results in a bit of "cringe" or at least an unnatural sound. Example: "show these cats" "big dick energy (I've only ever seen this typed, not EVER said by a human being)"

Perhaps I could do without the BDE, haha. Although, ironically, the only time I've ever heard the term is spoken. I feel I should also point out that Brandon is black, hence a lot of the slang he uses, including "cats", although I'm not sure I'm even using it correctly. Will have to check and perhaps reword, although those were two phrases I happened to really like lol.

There are a few grammar and spelling mistakes throughout that an editor could fix. Examples: "you give each other dap" (I'm assuming you meant "you give each other a dab", but this is pretty cringe too, honestly. Maybe I'm getting old~)

Lmao, nah, I didn't mean dab, I meant to "give dap", like a fist-bump/handshake. Again, will have to check if "give each other dap" is correct, as that exact quote only gets 689 results on Google, but it makes sense to me

Based on the last paragraph where you're describing Tanaka, I can tell this type of descriptive writing is your strong point compared to dialogue. Don't be afraid to bring that artistic flair into the rest of your writing more. Not everyone talks like a super bro.

That was a little surprising to me as I thought certain parts of the narration were a bit sloppy, like the space cadet metaphor, since I was rushing somewhat. But good to know that's on the right track. Gives me confidence on the descriptive front for the sex scenes.

Anyways, thanks for the pointers! I'll keep the dialogue in mind, perhaps stick to a bit more conventional speech at first and spice it up later.

 

[JollyGeorgieM]

So, first things first:

You: Yeah, and how am I supposed to do that?
Brandon: I told you, bro, get a date with the Waning Crescent and your set!

In the I_Guess path, that "your" Brandon says should be a "you're", as in "get a date and you are set". Also, in the narrative part at the bottom, "Bondian" I assume is supposed to reference James Bond? In this case, "Bond-like" works better - Bondian frankly sounds like some kind of alien species lol.

Next, in regards to your confidence system on the Right path, I'm not clear why saying "I'm not so sure..." gets you any more confidence than "Yeah, you think so?". The former expresses self-doubt, while the latter is seeking affirmation - neither are confident responses. I feel like a "Hell yeah" response would be the confident route, but I don't know exactly how much variation you want in your MC's available personalities.

That actually leads me to my next point: there is not a lot of variation in what's being said. Now, of course this is so early that the character hasn't had any time to develop, so that's to be expected. What I'm curious about is where things are headed in this regard. How different will the confident MC be versus the doubtful MC as things move forward? Moreover, one path clearly seems superior to the other here: confidence is good and effective while doubting yourself seems like a path to missing content. Aside from simply supplying choice, there has to be a compelling reason to choose any/every route. Perhaps instead of a confidence/no confidence split, there's a confident/cool split - in "confidence" you chase skirts proactively while in "cool" you self-improve to get the skirts chasing you, so to speak. These are very different paths but both could be viable playthroughs, you see?

Lastly, I'm not clear on the whole "class virgin" reputation thing. Is the MC a dweeb? He doesn't seem like one. He doesn't even seem like someone people would look at and just know on sight "Oh, that's def a virgin". Also, that doesn't seem like the sort of person you are trying to write here. How did he get the reputation of being not just a virgin, but THE virgin OF HIS ENTIRE CLASS. And why would Brandon hang out with someone with this reputation? This seems like a huge part of the character's backstory that the player needs to know right away so they can respond accordingly when the shameful event comes up (which it should, practically every time the MC approaches anyone from the school since they all must know about it). If he does not have a not-so-secret shame, then honestly I think you have written a different character than the one you describe (which is fine, btw, but it may require story adjustments if you want to keep this version going).

I hope I was helpful! To be clear, while this snippet is too short to formulate a full opinion on your game, I would say it's not at all a bad start. And I liked the Waning Crescent nickname! All in all, keep working and good luck moving forward!

 

[JWGameDev]

Thanks a bunch for the detailed response! Some very good points being made here.

Next, in regards to your confidence system on the Right path, I'm not clear why saying "I'm not so sure..." gets you any more confidence than "Yeah, you think so?".

I noticed that too after posting, then forgot about it again haha. Got caught up in the writing and didn't realize the dissonance.

How different will the confident MC be versus the doubtful MC as things move forward? Moreover, one path clearly seems superior to the other here: confidence is good and effective while doubting yourself seems like a path to missing content. Aside from simply supplying choice, there has to be a compelling reason to choose any/every route.

I think part of this problem stems from me wanting to keep the second-person POV while still giving the MC a bit of a backstory (which also has to do with the next part). I don't want to feel like I'm forcing the player, so I gave two opposing choices, but you're right, the choices don't really mean too much. Also, the confidence thing I only really had in mind for this beginning part, I wasn't thinking about it staying a theme throughout the game.

Specifically, what I had in mind was that, after asking out Hanako, you go straight to her home with her from there and fuck (I promise it'll make sense lol). Then, the top/bottom dynamics change depending on how you carried yourself with her.

Lastly, I'm not clear on the whole "class virgin" reputation thing.

Tbh, me neither. I just needed some kind of motivation for the MC to ask her out, and this seemed to work well enough. Like I mentioned before, I think making the POV second-person messes things up. I think I want to keep the "class virgin" theme as currently my plot is lacking substance beyond sex scenes. And I think that'll require switching to first-person and making the MC his own character since he's no longer a blank slate.

Hmm, so if I'd summarize, the key things I want are: 1. MC is the class virgin and part of the plot should be focused around this, 2. First sex scene dynamics depend on your interaction with Hanako, and 3. Brandon is his supportive friend, despite his reputation. To reconcile some of the issues, I'm thinking of changing POV to first-person, replacing the "confidence" choices with more generic choices (if any), and adding a narration/scene at the beginning that gives some extra context.

Well, phew, that's a doozy! Thanks so much for your valuable advice. I think I can make this thing worlds better now

 

[Oshitari Azumi]

Readying through the overall structure and grammar look alright to me! Granted, I don't know if in the Confident Dialogue "give each other dap" is some kind of statement that I'm just not aware of, but other than that, it looks good.

 

[JWGameDev]

Readying through the overall structure and grammar look alright to me! Granted, I don't know if in the Confident Dialogue "give each other dap" is some kind of statement that I'm just not aware of, but other than that, it looks good.

Well, thanks for the kind words! And I swear "giving dap" is a thing! Guess it's not as common as I thought though. Lol, and that might be the one thing I keep from this preliminary script, aside from Hanako's description, so I hope it's right.

And in case anybody is still interested in this thread, I'll give an update: I'm having more trouble than anticipated nailing down the characterization and plot while maintaining the branching nature of a visual novel. It is my first attempt after all. That said, I might transition to making this a kinetic novel instead, that way I don't have to worry about making it open-ended enough while still trying to make a specific character or move a particular plot point.

Once again, thank you all for your suggestions. This advice has been very valuable to me and I hope I can pay it forward by creating something y'all can enjoy as well!

 

[Oshitari Azumi]

Well, thanks for the kind words! And I swear "giving dap" is a thing! Guess it's not as common as I thought though. Lol, and that might be the one thing I keep from this preliminary script, aside from Hanako's description, so I hope it's right.

And in case anybody is still interested in this thread, I'll give an update: I'm having more trouble than anticipated nailing down the characterization and plot while maintaining the branching nature of a visual novel. It is my first attempt after all. That said, I might transition to making this a kinetic novel instead, that way I don't have to worry about making it open-ended enough while still trying to make a specific character or move a particular plot point.

Once again, thank you all for your suggestions. This advice has been very valuable to me and I hope I can pay it forward by creating something y'all can enjoy as well!

Hey if you need more help, and are okay with my meh-performance, then I'm okay with giving more help! Also, maybe "giving dap" is more common, and I just don't pay enough attention to this kind of stuff. I have a hard enough time understanding modern slang as is.

 

[RogueKnightUK]

As noted by another above, for me the choices you gave meant something different than you'd intended.

choice "I'm not so sure. . ." goto: Not_Sure set:confidence=2
choice "Yeah, you think so?" goto: Yeah_Think_So set:confidence=1

While neither is particularly confident, of the two one is completely doubtful "I'm not so sure..." while the other at least expresses affirmation before then seeking reassurance "Yeah, you think so?"

So as a player, I would firmly expect the one with "Yeah" in it to be the more confident, and so be 'tricked' into losing a point due to differences in understanding.

This is exceptionally common in VNs, so not at all a problem only you are having, but where you want to improve, this is absolutely a fundamental place to do so. When you present a choice, make sure it is incredibly clear what the difference between options is, and what the intention of the player would be in choosing it. Rework and reword any choices until even the vaguest doubts or uncertainties about intent are removed.

 

[JWGameDev]

Hey if you need more help, and are okay with my meh-performance, then I'm okay with giving more help!

Sounds good! Matter of fact, would you mind if I shot you a PM with some more detail about the story I'm going for? I think it'd be great to have another pair of eyes looking at it, especially ones more experienced with the genre.

As noted by another above, for me the choices you gave meant something different than you'd intended.

Absolutely. It was a mistake like I mentioned above, but even so, better clarity on potential choice outcomes would be better. I personally don't even like "Bad ending" type games, so I certainly wouldn't want that problem in my own. I'll keep it in mind for the future.