Others 2D artist wants to develop a game, have some questions

[Hinouka]

Here's my 2D Artist post, it has some examples of my art, and reviewes
[S>Artist 2D] - Experienced freelance 2d artist for hire ( any style ) | F95zone
i've been doing NSFW commissions for 2 years give or take
and i've been doing SFW commissions for longer.

i've had the chance to work with many, many people, on some it was a one-time commission, on some it was a long term thing
thing is most people eventually gave up on their game, and stopped commissioning me
i do have some active projects going on, but time-wise i can definitely set aside time to work on my own game.

I do have a 2nd artist that would support me incase i need help producing art faster.
and i have a voice actress that might join the project for narration and stuff.

Question 1:
i haven't yet put time to think whether i want to create a parody game kind of like Four elements trainer but with a different show, or an original game&story that i\ we the team, will together build/
but i do think I want the gameplay to be kind of similar to four elements trainer.
how does one begin learning how to develop\code\ make a game that's played like four elements trainer?
because i might just learn it myself and do both art and programming, if that's even realistic? is programming time consuming?

Question 2:
I would love to find serious people, who are willing and are able to work on something long term
what questions should i ask people that show interest in joining the project? or anything i should look for? good or bad?

Question 3:
assuming a programmer ditches the project mid-way, does that mean the game is doomed? or is it the same as artists? because artists are replaceable, and maybe programmers can't read each other's stuff, idk how that works xD

Question 4:
copyright stuff, does making a parody game of an existing show, mean i can get sued? if there's a chance i'll just make up my own game and story

Question 5:
Regarding payment, idk if i'll do revenue\commission my team
how much do programmers charge roughly? and writers?
how do you divide revenue assuming you have one programmer, one writer, one artist?
what do people usually divide it to


i might have more questions, if there's any guide\ place you can send me to that can help me understand more
i would love that! :>

thanks in advance!

 

[voronkov]

С пародиями не так много игр как хотелось бы. Особенно в оригинальной рисовке. Не знаю насчёт авторских прав пересоздании игры, но отдельные картинки многие художники создают и добавляют на сайты к примеру Rule 34. Так же думаю и на сайтах с донятыми они тоже есть. Так что даже не знаю насчёт авторских прав.
Насчёт как начать и создать. Небольшой простой пример по ссылке. Там пример того как можно делать игру в жанре Gloryhole. В игре с тренеров примерно так же, общение, прокачка навыков, возвращение обратно. После когда наберёшь достаточно навыков то продолжение сюжета. Тут главное даже не надо делать разнообразный сюжет, хорошо бы что бы было просто интересно прокачивать эти навыки и всё. Код обычно не очень сложных если хоть немного знаком. По ссылки там и другие идеи про игры. Не обязательно применить их, но хотя бы можно посмотреть для ознакомления.

There are not as many games with parodies as we would like. Especially in the original drawing. I don’t know about copyright in re-creating the game, but many artists create individual pictures and add them to sites, for example, Rule 34. I also think that they are also available on the sites with the same ones. So I don’t even know about copyrights.
About how to start and create. A small simple example at the link. There is an example of how you can make a game in the Gloryhole genre. In the game, it’s about the same with coaches, communication, leveling up skills, returning back. After you gain enough skills, the plot continues. The main thing here is that you don’t even need to create a varied plot, it would be nice if it were just interesting to upgrade these skills and that’s all. The code is usually not very complex if you are at least a little familiar. Follow the links there for other ideas about games. You don't have to use them, but you can at least look at them for reference.

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[osanaiko]

Question 1:
i haven't yet put time to think whether i want to create a parody game kind of like Four elements trainer but with a different show, or an original game&story that i\ we the team, will together build/
but i do think I want the gameplay to be kind of similar to four elements trainer.
how does one begin learning how to develop\code\ make a game that's played like four elements trainer?
because i might just learn it myself and do both art and programming, if that's even realistic? is programming time consuming?

Programming is not as time consuming as creating art once you have experience. If you already have logical/mathematical thinking capability, it is easier. However, while you are learning (especially with a niche platform like Renpy), there will be many frustrating moments particularly if you are trying to do something complex. "Keep it Simple" is great advice for a first project.

Also, keep in mind that separate from the programming aspect is the STORY AUTHORSHIP and the GAME DESIGN. Both of these are very important to making a good game - unless you are doing something that basically copies an existing idea, it takes creativity and skill to make a good storyline AND interesting gameplay. There are many games that have great visuals and/or programming implementation, but the story is terrible or the gameplay is stupid grinding or empty sandbox. This is a sad waste of effort in my opinion.

Question 2:
I would love to find serious people, who are willing and are able to work on something long term
what questions should i ask people that show interest in joining the project? or anything i should look for? good or bad?

Talk about your game project exactly like you have done here, it is a good place to attract interested volunteer partners. HOWEVER beware that many people *think* they want to be part of a game but they do not have the commitment to work hard for a long time. The other option is to ask to your existing real-life acquaintance group.
When you start a group project, you then also become PROJECT MANAGER - you must constantly track the quality and timeliness of delivery of the tasks that are shared by other people. This is a different skillset to all the other things already mentioned, it requires a high level of organization, communications and negotiation skill.

Question 3:
assuming a programmer ditches the project mid-way, does that mean the game is doomed? or is it the same as artists? because artists are replaceable, and maybe programmers can't read each other's stuff, idk how that works xD

All programmers think the previous developer on a project is an idiot. It is natural because they confuse "I don't understand the existing code yet" with "the existing code is poorly written". This is not an acceptable excuse and shows the immaturity of the new programmer. If a new programmer takes time to read and learn how the project works, they will see many solved problems, and some unsolved ones. It's always possible to improve an implementation, but as long as the goal is reached it is often a waste of time.
Programmers have varying skill levels and experience, but in general they should be able to be interchangable in the same way that artists are - you won't get the exact same style images, but you will get images that meet the description.

Question 4:
copyright stuff, does making a parody game of an existing show, mean i can get sued? if there's a chance i'll just make up my own game and story

There is a chance yes, depending on your legal jurisdiction and what company's IP you are targetting. Nintendo and Disney are aggressive. Most others are not, until you are big enough to make some money if they chase you down. "parody" is legal in US copyright laws, but the definition is complex.
Having said all that, do not let the concern of being sued be the thing that prevents you - it is extremely unlikely unless you make a huge successful game. Just take a look at the 100s of existing games that are clear parodies of existing famous characters like D.Va, or Lara Croft, etc etc.

Question 5:
Regarding payment, idk if i'll do revenue\commission my team
how much do programmers charge roughly? and writers?
how do you divide revenue assuming you have one programmer, one writer, one artist?
what do people usually divide it to

This really depends on the team agreement.

If your team is happy to wait until revenue starts coming in, one way might be to allocate "shares" of revenue after expenses:

• Founder/owner/promoter 1 share (or more)
• Project manager 1 share
• Each artist 1 share
• Writer/Designer 1 share
• Programmer 1 share

If you are the (founder and PM and one of the artists), maybe you get 3 shares and the rest of the team get one each. Or maybe you keep 50% and share the rest evenly.

But many freelancers will require payment in advance (exactly as you have done with your previous commission work) . So you need to have some money already to pay for the "piecework" contracting: pay artists per image, programmer per hour of time or per specific feature, writers per 1000s words of dialogue. Each of these specialties will have a Rate that they agree with you.

You can browse the "Recruitment and Services" subforum to find prices for programming or writing: https://f95zone.to/forums/recruitment-services.117/

Beyond this post, there are many discussions and advice posts on this forum. Here is a good one: https://f95zone.to/threads/winterfires-talentless-guide-on-how-to-make-a-game.154572/

And if you have more questions there are many who will probably give their opinions as well.

 

[osanaiko]

After thinking a bit, I want to qualify my answer to Question 3.

It is possible for inexperienced (include 100% noob or self taught) programmers to create absolute abominations of complexity, repeated code, poor organization, bad naming simply because they have never seen good examples and they keep using the limited mental tools to keep digging a deeper hole. So if the 1st programmer was not good at the task, the following programmer will genuinely have a very difficult time understanding and being able to safely modify/continue the development.

How can you identify the problems? Look at their code output, ask them to explain how "subsystem x" works, how they will add more contents.
Check how the files they create look:
- are there lots of smaller files? good, this shows they are splitting the code up into sensible size pieces.
- Are there labels or functions with lots and lots of code, or variable names that are not immediately obvious what they mean? That is Bad: it will be harder to come back and understand later.
- ask another programmer that you think is skilled to do a quick review of the code style.

 

[Hinouka]

С пародиями не так много игр как хотелось бы. Особенно в оригинальной рисовке. Не знаю насчёт авторских прав пересоздании игры, но отдельные картинки многие художники создают и добавляют на сайты к примеру Rule 34. Так же думаю и на сайтах с донятыми они тоже есть. Так что даже не знаю насчёт авторских прав.
Насчёт как начать и создать. Небольшой простой пример по ссылке. Там пример того как можно делать игру в жанре Gloryhole. В игре с тренеров примерно так же, общение, прокачка навыков, возвращение обратно. После когда наберёшь достаточно навыков то продолжение сюжета. Тут главное даже не надо делать разнообразный сюжет, хорошо бы что бы было просто интересно прокачивать эти навыки и всё. Код обычно не очень сложных если хоть немного знаком. По ссылки там и другие идеи про игры. Не обязательно применить их, но хотя бы можно посмотреть для ознакомления.

There are not as many games with parodies as we would like. Especially in the original drawing. I don’t know about copyright in re-creating the game, but many artists create individual pictures and add them to sites, for example, Rule 34. I also think that they are also available on the sites with the same ones. So I don’t even know about copyrights.
About how to start and create. A small simple example at the link. There is an example of how you can make a game in the Gloryhole genre. In the game, it’s about the same with coaches, communication, leveling up skills, returning back. After you gain enough skills, the plot continues. The main thing here is that you don’t even need to create a varied plot, it would be nice if it were just interesting to upgrade these skills and that’s all. The code is usually not very complex if you are at least a little familiar. Follow the links there for other ideas about games. You don't have to use them, but you can at least look at them for reference.

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thank you very much :>

 

[Hinouka]

Programming is not as time consuming as creating art once you have experience. If you already have logical/mathematical thinking capability, it is easier. However, while you are learning (especially with a niche platform like Renpy), there will be many frustrating moments particularly if you are trying to do something complex. "Keep it Simple" is great advice for a first project.

Also, keep in mind that separate from the programming aspect is the STORY AUTHORSHIP and the GAME DESIGN. Both of these are very important to making a good game - unless you are doing something that basically copies an existing idea, it takes creativity and skill to make a good storyline AND interesting gameplay. There are many games that have great visuals and/or programming implementation, but the story is terrible or the gameplay is stupid grinding or empty sandbox. This is a sad waste of effort in my opinion.



Talk about your game project exactly like you have done here, it is a good place to attract interested volunteer partners. HOWEVER beware that many people *think* they want to be part of a game but they do not have the commitment to work hard for a long time. The other option is to ask to your existing real-life acquaintance group.
When you start a group project, you then also become PROJECT MANAGER - you must constantly track the quality and timeliness of delivery of the tasks that are shared by other people. This is a different skillset to all the other things already mentioned, it requires a high level of organization, communications and negotiation skill.



All programmers think the previous developer on a project is an idiot. It is natural because they confuse "I don't understand the existing code yet" with "the existing code is poorly written". This is not an acceptable excuse and shows the immaturity of the new programmer. If a new programmer takes time to read and learn how the project works, they will see many solved problems, and some unsolved ones. It's always possible to improve an implementation, but as long as the goal is reached it is often a waste of time.
Programmers have varying skill levels and experience, but in general they should be able to be interchangable in the same way that artists are - you won't get the exact same style images, but you will get images that meet the description.



There is a chance yes, depending on your legal jurisdiction and what company's IP you are targetting. Nintendo and Disney are aggressive. Most others are not, until you are big enough to make some money if they chase you down. "parody" is legal in US copyright laws, but the definition is complex.
Having said all that, do not let the concern of being sued be the thing that prevents you - it is extremely unlikely unless you make a huge successful game. Just take a look at the 100s of existing games that are clear parodies of existing famous characters like D.Va, or Lara Croft, etc etc.



This really depends on the team agreement.

If your team is happy to wait until revenue starts coming in, one way might be to allocate "shares" of revenue after expenses:

• Founder/owner/promoter 1 share (or more)
• Project manager 1 share
• Each artist 1 share
• Writer/Designer 1 share
• Programmer 1 share

If you are the (founder and PM and one of the artists), maybe you get 3 shares and the rest of the team get one each. Or maybe you keep 50% and share the rest evenly.

But many freelancers will require payment in advance (exactly as you have done with your previous commission work) . So you need to have some money already to pay for the "piecework" contracting: pay artists per image, programmer per hour of time or per specific feature, writers per 1000s words of dialogue. Each of these specialties will have a Rate that they agree with you.

You can browse the "Recruitment and Services" subforum to find prices for programming or writing: https://f95zone.to/forums/recruitment-services.117/

Beyond this post, there are many discussions and advice posts on this forum. Here is a good one: https://f95zone.to/threads/winterfires-talentless-guide-on-how-to-make-a-game.154572/

And if you have more questions there are many who will probably give their opinions as well.

After thinking a bit, I want to qualify my answer to Question 3.

It is possible for inexperienced (include 100% noob or self taught) programmers to create absolute abominations of complexity, repeated code, poor organization, bad naming simply because they have never seen good examples and they keep using the limited mental tools to keep digging a deeper hole. So if the 1st programmer was not good at the task, the following programmer will genuinely have a very difficult time understanding and being able to safely modify/continue the development.

How can you identify the problems? Look at their code output, ask them to explain how "subsystem x" works, how they will add more contents.
Check how the files they create look:
- are there lots of smaller files? good, this shows they are splitting the code up into sensible size pieces.
- Are there labels or functions with lots and lots of code, or variable names that are not immediately obvious what they mean? That is Bad: it will be harder to come back and understand later.
- ask another programmer that you think is skilled to do a quick review of the code style.

you've helped so much, thank you very much for the time you've dedicated to answering my questions:>