Seeking Strong female MC corrupted

DarthSeduction

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That is correct, I am well aware that if every women was a prostitute the term would no longer have any meaning. Plus slut shaming would not exist, also agreed. Would you like things to be that way? I guess the way that this is bad and people that dont benefit from this is males who have no interest in being with whores and prostitutes?
That's not at all true. If I thought there was a demand for men of my size I'd be all over it. But more importantly, no, I'm not saying that I would prefer a world where all women are prostitutes. I'm simply saying that you say it like its a bad thing when in reality it doesn't cause problems and instead, assuming all women in this scenario are making this choice willfully, the world is better for it.

I brought it up because you point it all out as if its an inherently horribly thought. But really its not. The only reason its seen as such is that masculine greed has taught our culture that women should be pure until they're married and remain faithful to their husband. Today we live in a world that is slowly abandoning the idea that monogamy is the only way to live. That isn't to say we are abandoning monogamy all together, many still strongly believe in it, but we are becoming more comfortable with the idea of people who don't settle down, or who settle down and swing.

Your knee jerk reaction to say "why don't all women just become prostitutes?" comes from that old world that sees female sexuality as a bad thing. That condemns it. That was what I was attempting to point out.
 
Aug 22, 2017
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I'm told the russian view of female sexuality characterizes it as prostitution - just as a whore sells her pussy to a string of Johns, or a party girl fucks guys in return for drugs and favors, a monogamously married house wife sells her pussy (exclusively) to the highest bidder, the husband. This came up because I noticed the pattern of sex being equated with prostitution in certain russian-made porn games and asked russians on /int/ about it. Any actual russians here are certainly welcome to correct or confirm this, or whether the summary "All women are prostitutes" is accurate in the Russian world view, or if there are exceptions (celibate nuns, mayhaps?)

I find this view refreshingly down-to-earth, not complicated by wishy-washy notions of romantic love.
 
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DarthSeduction

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I'm told the russian view of female sexuality characterizes it as prostitution - just as a whore sells her pussy to a string of Johns, or a party girl fucks guys in return for drugs and favors, a monogamously married house wife sells her pussy (exclusively) to the highest bidder, the husband. This came up because I noticed the pattern of sex being equated with prostitution in certain russian-made porn games and asked russians on /int/ about it. Any actual russians here are certainly welcome to correct or confirm this, or whether the summary "All women are prostitutes" is accurate in the Russian world view, or if there are exceptions (celibate nuns, mayhaps?)

I find this view refreshingly down-to-earth, not complicated by wishy-washy notions of romantic love.
I see your view but I also find it enforces the idea that sex is a masculine desire that women exploit rather than having both parties be involved for the sex.
 
Aug 22, 2017
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I see your view but I also find it enforces the idea that sex is a masculine desire that women exploit rather than having both parties be involved for the sex.
The reality is that prostitution is almost exclusively a wealth transfer from men to women - And it is so both in the russian and the western view of what prostitution is. If both parties were interested in the same way in sex, or material wealth, the business would not be this lop-sided.

So why do men give up money to be with girls? Based on this simple observation, we can immediately discern two possibilities:
a) Men are more interested in sex than women are
b) Men are less interested in material wealth than women are

So either men are horn dogs who will give up anything for a nice set of tits - or women are coldly calculating gold diggers who conspire to keep pussy an artificially scarce commodity to extract wealth from men who do not care about material goods.
 

DarthSeduction

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The reality is that prostitution is almost exclusively a wealth transfer from men to women - And it is so both in the russian and the western view of what prostitution is. If both parties were interested in the same way in sex, or material wealth, the business would not be this lop-sided.

So why do men give up money to be with girls? Based on this simple observation, we can immediately discern two possibilities:
a) Men are more interested in sex than women are
b) Men are less interested in material wealth than women are

So either men are horn dogs who will give up anything for a nice set of tits - or women are coldly calculating gold diggers who conspire to keep pussy an artificially scarce commodity to extract wealth from men who do not care about material goods.
Actually I think its even worse. Women can afford to be picky. Men are traditionally the one who goes out to court the women. As a result the women have multiple suitors. Men, who don't are willing to pay for it to skip the courtship. Women don't have to because the men come to them.
 
Aug 22, 2017
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Men are traditionally the one who goes out to court the women.
I believe this is totally incorrect. It is overwhelmingly women who do the courting. Who's shopping for clothes 24/7, applying makeup, subjecting themselves to diets and what not as to appear more attractive to men? Women are doing virtually all of the courting.

Unless, of course, you want to define courting solely as "buying gifts for the other", which goes right back to (russian) prostitution, and is about the only thing men traditionally actively do in courtship.
 

FinalSquall

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Dec 12, 2017
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That's not at all true. If I thought there was a demand for men of my size I'd be all over it
I dont get what you are saying here.

That's not at all true. If I thought there was a demand for men of my size I'd be all over it. But more importantly, no, I'm not saying that I would prefer a world where all women are prostitutes. I'm simply saying that you say it like its a bad thing when in reality it doesn't cause problems and instead, assuming all women in this scenario are making this choice willfully, the world is better for it.

I brought it up because you point it all out as if its an inherently horribly thought. But really its not. The only reason its seen as such is that masculine greed has taught our culture that women should be pure until they're married and remain faithful to their husband. Today we live in a world that is slowly abandoning the idea that monogamy is the only way to live. That isn't to say we are abandoning monogamy all together, many still strongly believe in it, but we are becoming more comfortable with the idea of people who don't settle down, or who settle down and swing.

Your knee jerk reaction to say "why don't all women just become prostitutes?" comes from that old world that sees female sexuality as a bad thing. That condemns it. That was what I was attempting to point out.
"should be pure until they're married and remain faithful to their husband" This is a LONG way from women being prostitutes dude. Having a boyfriend at school or uni or whatever and having sex, nothing wrong with that. Having boyfriends along the way before you settle down, also nothing wrong with that. Actively encouraging behaviours like selling themselves to the highest paying boys because it is a "tool they have and will enjoy using", yea I will be honest, I do have a problem with that.

People having a hard time settling down is a long way from prostition as well, unless they are doing it on the side while trying to find someone to settle down with. I also do not think that this is an example of polygamy.
 

DarthSeduction

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I believe this is totally incorrect. It is overwhelmingly women who do the courting. Who's shopping for clothes 24/7, applying makeup, subjecting themselves to diets and what not as to appear more attractive to men? Women are doing virtually all of the courting.

Unless, of course, you want to define courting solely as "buying gifts for the other", which goes right back to (russian) prostitution, and is about the only thing men traditionally actively do in courtship.
Sure, they make themselves attractive, but so do men. What the difference is, at least traditionally, is that it is up to the man to make the first move. Women don't. They present themselves and wait. Of course this is changing these days, however, it is absolutely true to say that women are on the receiving end of multiple offers of courtship while men are lucky to get one. This is even true if both are working adults with even pay and the like. Hell, these days the amount of gifts women buy for their partners is insane. So, no, I don't accept your view of the women trading sex for material wealth.
 

DarthSeduction

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I dont get what you are saying here.
You said that men weren't interested in selling themselves? Or did I misunderstand?

This is a LONG way from women being prostitutes dude. Having a boyfriend at school or uni or whatever and having sex, nothing wrong with that. Having boyfriends along the way before you settle down, also nothing wrong with that. Actively encouraging behaviours like selling themselves to the highest paying boys because it is a "tool they have and will enjoy using", yea I will be honest, I do have a problem with that.
Why? Say the girl sleeps around for free with just as many people as the girl who sells it. What makes the one selling it worse or less valuable other than your personal bias? They've both had just as much dick. They both have a high opinion of their self worth. The only difference is that one took advantage of weak men who didn't enter into the game of traditional courtship.

People having a hard time settling down is a long way from prostition as well, unless they are doing it on the side while trying to find someone to settle down with. I also do not think that this is an example of polygamy.
Again, aside from your personal perception whats the difference. A woman who, with consent of her more traditional partner, sleeps around and a woman, also with the consent of her more traditional partner, makes her money as a prostitute, whats the difference? Only money.

You're the one putting a negative connotation on prostitution. I see it as sex with people who aren't really interested in earning that interaction in another way.
 

FinalSquall

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You said that men weren't interested in selling themselves? Or did I misunderstand?
You misunderstood. I said BEING WITH prostitutes and whores. Not being one themself.

Why? Say the girl sleeps around for free with just as many people as the girl who sells it. What makes the one selling it worse or less valuable other than your personal bias? They've both had just as much dick. They both have a high opinion of their self worth. The only difference is that one took advantage of weak men who didn't enter into the game of traditional courtship.
What you are saying there is that one is a whore and one is a prostitute lol. I said having a few boyfriends on the way to settling down (and may be news to you but yea, when I say boyfriend I mean a faithful, monogomous relationship), and I accept some sexual encounters will happen outside of that criteria, I got drunk on nights out at uni and took girls home (not that often it is fair to say, but I did it) so it would be hipocritical of me to never expect a women to act like that, but they SHOULD grow out of it. And I agree, being a whore is even worse than being a prostitute.

Again, aside from your personal perception whats the difference. A woman who, with consent of her more traditional partner, sleeps around and a woman, also with the consent of her more traditional partner, makes her money as a prostitute, whats the difference? Only money.

You're the one putting a negative connotation on prostitution. I see it as sex with people who aren't really interested in earning that interaction in another way.
I never mentioned a guy that likes his partner getting pounded by other men. Plus a guy that consents to his partner sleeping around doesnt sound "traditional" to me...

Here is an example If I settle down in a few years, have a kid, kid is a girl, do I want her to grow up to be a prostitute? Fuck no. Therefore I dont want any people trying to justify it as a good thing. Some women will do it, whatever, but it should stay as something taboo, and women that choose to make money that way deserve the prejudice they get. You are right that there are still plenty of women sleeping around for free which I might not say the same about because they are not labelled as "prostitutes", but I think encouraging prostitution encourages that type of behaviour also and both are equally bad.
 

DarthSeduction

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You misunderstood. I said BEING WITH prostitutes and whores. Not being one themself.
I did. To which I guess I stand in opposition to you, as a man who could care less what she does for a living as long as she's clean.

What you are saying there is that one is a whore and one is a prostitute lol.
A whore and a prostitute are the same thing. Maybe you meant slut. You prove my point. Your stance is on the end of believing that a womans sexuality should be long to the man in her life.

Here is an example If I settle down in a few years, have a kid, kid is a girl, do I want her to grow up to be a prostitute? Fuck no. Therefore I dont want any people trying to justify it as a good thing.
This isn't up to you. I've put a lot of thought into this myself. I want my children to be happy and able to support themselves. If my children choose to support themselves through sex, and they're happy with that, that's their choice. I have no more right to tell them no to that than I would to tell them no to being a porn star, or a porn game designer, or a doctor for that matter. Its not up to you to choose how they live their lives.

That's exactly what I was getting at this whole time. The demonization of sex in society and the domination of that by men. Its objectively wrong and moreover repressive. I view all repressive actions as inherently evil. You don't have the right to tell anyone else how to behave or live their lives so long as they aren't hurting people.

women that choose to make money that way deserve the prejudice they get.
This is disgusting. The vitriol I feel for people who feel the way you do is insane. You're no better than a homophobe or a racist with such an outlook. I'm done. Have a nice life.
 

Gomly1980

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This is disgusting. The vitriol I feel for people who feel the way you do is insane. You're no better than a homophobe or a racist with such an outlook. I'm done. Have a nice life.
I've just put him ignore.

His attitude is disgusting and you're going to give yourself a migraine trying to talk to him.

One of those "forever alone" types.
 

FinalSquall

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Dec 12, 2017
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I did. To which I guess I stand in opposition to you, as a man who could care less what she does for a living as long as she's clean.
So you use prostitutes I guess? Shock that you are arguing in favor of them, I guess you have no choice or it would make you a hipocrite.

A whore and a prostitute are the same thing. Maybe you meant slut. You prove my point. Your stance is on the end of believing that a womans sexuality should be long to the man in her life.
You are right, I meant slut, my bad. No, I believe that Men should not go around fucking every women they can, and I believe women should not go around fucking every man they can. Nothing to do with all this "it belongs to the man" crap that you keep preaching.

This isn't up to you. I've put a lot of thought into this myself. I want my children to be happy and able to support themselves. If my children choose to support themselves through sex, and they're happy with that, that's their choice. I have no more right to tell them no to that than I would to tell them no to being a porn star, or a porn game designer, or a doctor for that matter. Its not up to you to choose how they live their lives.

That's exactly what I was getting at this whole time. The demonization of sex in society and the domination of that by men. Its objectively wrong and moreover repressive. I view all repressive actions as inherently evil. You don't have the right to tell anyone else how to behave or live their lives so long as they aren't hurting people.
Actually it is entirely up to me if I want to think "I do not want my daughter to grow up to be a whore". If that is how you feel good for you, want your daughter to grow up to be a whore, fine, up to you. We do not all share that opinion, or have any obligation to share that opinion, so stop preaching it like we do. That is your view.

This is disgusting. The vitriol I feel for people who feel the way you do is insane. You're no better than a homophobe or a racist with such an outlook. I'm done. Have a nice life.
So I have to listen to you saying you think prostitution is all fine and dandy despite the fact I disagree with your view, but I am not allowed to put forward my view without sugarcoating it for you? It is very different to racism and homosexuality, a black man did not choose to be black, a gay man did not choose to be gay, a prostitute chooses to sell their body for money.
 

FinalSquall

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Dec 12, 2017
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I've just put him ignore.

His attitude is disgusting and you're going to give yourself a migraine trying to talk to him.

One of those "forever alone" types.
Or I just prefer to spend my time with women that are not sex workers?
Is that really such a bad thing.
What is wrong with you guys lol.

If you ask me, you two are the ones with issues. Someone has a different view and dares talk back to you, so you ignore them and call them a bad person.
Pretty lame...
 

polywog

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May 19, 2017
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you don't tend to find strong women in them because they don't find themselves in that kind of situation
Yes, strong women generally climb the ladder doing whatever it takes to get there. But in this "information" age with billions of cameras, it is becoming ever increasingly difficult to "get away with it". Their biggest enemies are so-called fellow women. Incriminating evidence is easy to find, and the more you have to lose, typically the more you are willing to give to try and keep it.
I'm not one to begrudge a woman for her success. If she EARNED it one way or another, doesn't matter, as long as nobody got "hurt".
 

DarthSeduction

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a prostitute chooses to sell their body for money.
Its not about the choice involved. How about I compare it to transphobia then, since they do have to choose to start the treatments. The point is you are actively seeking to repress. What other consenting adults choose to do is none of your business.

Actually it is entirely up to me if I want to think "I do not want my daughter to grow up to be a whore". If that is how you feel good for you, want your daughter to grow up to be a whore, fine, up to you. We do not all share that opinion, or have any obligation to share that opinion, so stop preaching it like we do. That is your view.
Actually no, you do have to change your view. Or are you going to disown your child when she becomes a prostitute? You seem to think that being ok with prostitution and the idea of the women in my life being such means that I would actively encourage it. That's making a leap that isn't even close to being true. I'm simply promoting a world where we don't shame one another for enjoying sex.

You are right, I meant slut, my bad. No, I believe that Men should not go around fucking every women they can, and I believe women should not go around fucking every man they can. Nothing to do with all this "it belongs to the man" crap that you keep preaching.
Again, you seek to shame and degrade others. If you don't see why you're objectively in the wrong I am sorry for you.

So you use prostitutes I guess? Shock that you are arguing in favor of them, I guess you have no choice or it would make you a hipocrite.
You guess, exactly, further assumptions about me and who I am. How dare I be accepting of other's lifestyles without personally indulging. Keep digging.

Or I just prefer to spend my time with women that are not sex workers?
Is that really such a bad thing.
What is wrong with you guys lol.
Nothing, we aren't seeking to repress others. You are. You're the one who wants others to conform to you. I don't say that everyone has to be a sex worker. I am saying that they are just as human as you or me and deserve to be treated with the same level of dignity and respect as anyone else. You're the one who implied it would be bad if everyone was a sex worker, I only sought to prove that as they're all human, there's no difference between them. I don't care how much sex a person has, with how many partners, or for what reason. You do, and that's the problem. Its none of your business.
 

FinalSquall

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Dec 12, 2017
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Actually no, you do have to change your view. Or are you going to disown your child when she becomes a prostitute?
IF she became a prostitute, and no, I would never disown my child, but it would kill me inside. And no, I do not have to change my view. It is my view, and I am entitled to it.

Its not about the choice involved. How about I compare it to transphobia then, since they do have to choose to start the treatments. The point is you are actively seeking to repress. What other consenting adults choose to do is none of your business.
They didnt choose to be confused about their gender did they, prostitutes actively make a choice that exploits the fact that they are the "prize" and sought by men as you said above. They are basically exploiting the desperation of some men to make their money.

Again, you seek to shame and degrade others. If you don't see why you're objectively in the wrong I am sorry for you.
I do not seek to shame and degrade anyone. Englighten me, why is having the view, "I disagree with prostitution" objectively wrong? Why is your view any more right.

You guess, exactly, further assumptions about me and who I am. How dare I be accepting of other's lifestyles without personally indulging. Keep digging.
Its not exactly like I can know is it. Honestly I apologise for that, but for me I struggle to comprehend a man that likes the idea of his daughter being a prostitute. So I may have been trying to find something about you that explains it, sorry.

I agree they are just as human as I am, but I think if you are going to place yourself on sale like a piece of meat in a market, just because you know you can, you inevitably lose some respect and dignity, in my eyes anyway. Sorry.
 
Aug 22, 2017
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Sure, they make themselves attractive, but so do men. What the difference is, at least traditionally, is that it is up to the man to make the first move. Women don't. They present themselves and wait. Of course this is changing these days, however, it is absolutely true to say that women are on the receiving end of multiple offers of courtship while men are lucky to get one. This is even true if both are working adults with even pay and the like. Hell, these days the amount of gifts women buy for their partners is insane. So, no, I don't accept your view of the women trading sex for material wealth.
You're wrong. It is almost always women who do the first step in successful matings, this has been observed in studies on the subject in "mingling bar situations" supervised by camera recordings. Even when both would later agree that it was the male who did the first step, the footage revealed that it was in fact the woman. This applies to successful matings, i.e. people who went home together, there were of course plenty of attempts by guys to approach that failed - the overwhelming majority of approaches that succeeded were initiated by the women.

This means that there is a cultural notion that it is the man who does the first step, this is what you fall victim to, and a (socio-biological?) reality of women doing the first step. And that's even when you ignore the "spending 2 hours in the bathroom and dressing like a skank" portion in preparation of that, which I made the argument before, is the *actual* first step women take, that men don't, or with a hundred times less effort.

Now on to resolve this little conundrum about why men pay women for sex. It's simple: Women that men want to have sex with, are fertile, and thus, say, 15 to 30 years old. The (fertile) men that would want to have sex with those women to the point of paying for it, on the other hand, are, say, 15 to 75 years old. So we have like 4 times more men that would fuck a fertile woman than vice versa. This makes the whole sexual marketplace of fertile people biased, it makes fuckable pussy scarce compared to dicks - Because nobody wants to boink grandma.

I drank with a 50 year old Serbian woman once, and after comparing me to her dead son, she got a bit ...frisky. After repeatedly rejecting her, I had to flee. She would have had to spend a fortune to convince me to do anything with her. Bitch even stalked me later, even after repeated and explicit insistence to fuck off. Meanwhile, hookers do give attractive people hefty discounts - but they still fuck gramps for a fraction of what it'd take for me to touch that granny fanny. This also has logistical reasons: A girl can simply fuck 20 grampses a day and live a life of luxury the rest of the week, while as a guy, I'd be hard pressed to keep it going after 1 or 2 grannies, which means I'd have to charge much higher individual rates to make the same money.

Where was I going with this? Oh yeah, nobody wants to fuck grandma, and that's why young girls can charge money for sex, even though they do the first step.
 

DarthSeduction

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This applies to successful matings, i.e. people who went home together, there were of course plenty of attempts by guys to approach that failed
Don't you see how this alone proves my point, even if I was wrong about who actually initiates, the fact is she had lots of choices and initiated a choice with the one she wanted. Men tend to cast their line as many times as we can. Mostly we get rejected. Women don't have that problem. Or did your studies observe a similar number of attempts and failures on their part?
 
Aug 22, 2017
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Don't you see how this alone proves my point
No. It proves that people (both men and women) erroneously assume that it would be the man who initiates, and that this doesn't work. It proves not only that women are capable and successful at initiating, it proves that they ARE the ones who overwhelmingly initiate successful encounters. That means the vast majority of people alive were born to a woman who initiated contact.

If you think about it, it's pretty obvious. A guy approaches you (you being a girl here) - what's that situation? A guy, by comparison to you, is a big hairy murder machine full of bulging muscles. Such a guy approaching you sets you right into panic mode, because, a man approaching, is first and foremost a physical threat. And the guy doesn't really have a way to defuse this initial problem either, he has a low, booming voice, and smells bad. Contrast that to a girl approaching a guy - By contrast, it's basically a harmless child that approaches you. And in between mind-controlling cleavage, a pleasant voice and generally presenting much less of a threat or body odor, there's tools to defuse the situation and reduce tension. Light touch, for example, done by a physically inferior girl, is not perceived as threatening. Women are so much better equipped for initiation of contact than men are, this is why anyone who knows his shit preferably uses cute girls when gathering signatures, or as receptionists and in many other situations. Women are not only the ones who do initiate, they're the ones who should initiate, and the tragedy of today is that everyone is taught the reverse, to have men approach, when that provably does not work.

I can even tell you why you'd think it's men who do the approaching!

That's a cultural trope that has evolved in the west over the last 200 years, and primarily popularized with Charles Darwins second book, "Sexual Selection", which codified the victorian age ideal of the gender interactions as some sort of biological reality without empirically validating this assumption. The victorian age ideal was for the woman to stay at home and be a demure house wife, while the husband is out slaughtering Zulus and other assorted brown people, you know, imperializing. In its most abstract terms, the victorian age ideal revolved around passivity of the female as opposed to the (pro)activeness of the male. Because Darwin was that influental, this "darwinist sexual selection" has since greatly influenced western culture, beginning with the sciences, to the point where it now has been adopted as "common sense truth" even when it does not stand up to the most superficial of empirical observations. So yes: You, Darth, are promoting a victorian age gender stereotype here. Knowing you, I know you'll feel incredible shame and embarassment by now. Cheers!

I know I've talked about this before, but in the west, the source of the "gender ideal" before this victorian-darwinist-modernist interpretation was the Bible, where women are essentially succubi who think only with their pussies and how to get them stuffed. Not necessarily a positive image, certainly - but a proactive one, when it comes to sex, and much closer to observable reality than the darwinist one.
 
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