Burnt out game-devs

nyin · Aug 21, 2018

Hey devs. I'm so burnt out writing and producing right now. All my energy is just sucked out me, as if I just had sex and now I'm looking for food and a good sleep. I want to continue going, but...*tearing up*...I just...*over dramatic turn away*- I've lost my boner!

What do my fellow devs do when you're burnt out? Don't tell me there's something like dev viagra...is there? :FeelsGoodMan:

GuyFreely · Aug 21, 2018

Taking a short break is fine, if you need to recharge. The standard advice is to just keep going. Even if you don't want to, even if your heart isn't in it. You might even end up throwing away some of the work you did when you weren't really into it. That's fine. The goal is to keep some sort of momentum. The longer you stop working on something, the harder it is to jump back into it. If you really can't bring yourself to work on the main project, try a little side project. Even if it's something that you never expect to become a reality. The danger there is becoming more invested in the new project. If you absolutely don't want to work on something, then try the inverse. If you are a writer, do more reading, really pick things apart. If you don't like the way something was written, how would you rewrite it? That kind of thing. You could read your own work too, even old stuff that's done and gone. Again, the goal is to keep you somewhat engaged.

The ultimate hope here is that something clicks and you say "I'm going to add this into my game, but better." Maybe you push through a part you aren't that interested in and find yourself at a part you can really get into. It's easy for a week break to turn into a month break and beyond, so be careful.

nyin · Aug 21, 2018

My goodness! Thank you! That was definitely that slight push on the back that I needed.

GuyFreely said:
Even if you don't want to, even if your heart isn't in it. You might even end up throwing away some of the work you did when you weren't really into it. That's fine.

^ This exactly explains the reason for my hesitation to continue. I didn't want to produce anything less than 100%, but this is definitely encouraging to hear.

GuyFreely said:
Maybe you push through a part you aren't that interested in and find yourself at a part you can really get into.

^ This is also, spot on, one of the restraining factors upon me.

Mr. GuyFreely, :'( thank you! I really appreciate your advice.
Off to battle! :FuckYea:

DarthSeduction · Aug 21, 2018

If I'm honest, I can't write for more than 2-3 hours in any given day, and even then, that's if I'm really clear about what I want. I can sometimes sit down, stare at it for an hour, and have only one good line written, delete the rest, and start over later. I'd love to say that I can rip out a script in a quick 8 hour session, but whenever I push myself I come back and read it later and I'm really not happy with it. I did that with the current script I'm writing, and as a result even though I was confident I had about 40% done pretty early on, I ended up rewriting almost all of it. Like, I had the framework, knew what I wanted, which helps a lot, but the details and how we get from point A to point B, the dialogue, these things take time to really feel out.

So don't get discouraged. Take a day or two, play some video games, take a walk, hit the showers, whatever is your zen do that. And then come back when you're ready again. I actually wish more devs would do this, would take their time, because the ones that push through and put out half hearted scripts aren't the ones that make an amazing product. Take your time, be patient with yourself, and keep your audience informed on your progress. They're much more forgiving of time when they're getting regular updates.

nyin · Aug 21, 2018

DarthSeduction said:
but the details and how we get from point A to point B, the dialogue, these things take time to really feel out.

^ Sooo true. My point B right now is so juicy, but my point A on the way there is so bleh. Makes me just want to fill the gap with a "2 years later" segue from SpongeBob lol

Thanks for the encouragement and recommendation on patience. I have a little bit of a time crunch, which is where the conflict comes in to play for me. But I guess it's not that bad. I'll be sure to take the break I need. Thanks Darth! :eazyHype:

DarthSeduction · Aug 21, 2018

nyin said:
^ Sooo true. My point B right now is so juicy, but my point A on the way there is so bleh. Makes me just want to fill the gap with a "2 years later" segue from SpongeBob lol

Thanks for the encouragement and recommendation on patience. I have a little bit of a time crunch, which is where the conflict comes in to play for me. But I guess it's not that bad. I'll be sure to take the break I need. Thanks Darth! :eazyHype:

That's not 100% a bad idea, I'm not sure what you're doing, but both in this current script, and in the script I've been working on for months that will soon see a first release I've used montages to pass time when there's nothing to fill it, but I want it to be clear that more time has passed.

In my current script I'm gonna sorta fast-forward through a whole week of time by making use of my character's blogging. I'll show sequences showing things that I set up in the first 2/3 of the script to illustrate the evolution of those conflicts.

In the other one, the game starts 3 years after a prologue in which I show you the traumatic event that shapes the character's future. All their decisions are built on that event and the events of the montage. One cool thing with that, the main characters are twins. So what I do is have the two of them swap in and out of narrating the montage, and it allows me to cement this idea that they are in fact close twins, finishing one another's thoughts, picking up from where the last one left off and completing the story. I do this in other parts of the script, but this is the first time I seed it.

So these things can still be artful and allow you to build character and interest. Of course, you can't skip everything, but there is a way to flash forward that doesn't feel too out of place, and can even fit in with the storytelling if you know what you're doing.

GuyFreely · Aug 21, 2018

Yeah I'm not saying write 8 hours a day, I'm saying try not to stop for long periods of time (days/weeks). My problem is that I'll be lying in bed when I should be sleeping and I mentally write a page of dialogue then I go to write it later and I'm like "how did it go again?"

uradamus · Aug 21, 2018

It can help to take some time to plan. Start with some big picture goals, then break those down into the sub-goals that you need to hit along the way to reach the main one. Keep breaking them down until they can't be broken down any further. If you do this in a checklist format, then you'll have both a way to keep track of progress and any time you are feeling unsure what to do, you can turn to your list and find something that strikes your fancy and hopefully spurs you on towards some productive work. It doesn't have to be perfect, or even complete, it just needs to remind you of what you've still got ahead and what you've already accomplished. You can keep adding to, removing from and refining your list as time goes on and your project(s) evolve.

Also don't be afraid to make mistakes; they are your greatest teacher. Along the same vein, don't be too precious about your work, be willing to throw things away and iterate. I always start things off rough and loose; working fast and not worrying at all about polish. This goes for art, writing, coding, etc. You just want to get something down so you can start making value judgments on that work and make the big changes early on when they aren't so costly and mistakes aren't hard to fix. That willingness to just jump in, even blindly at times, ought to help a lot with getting over the emotional speed bumps that are always looking to slow us down. If you can foster and embrace a love for experimentation in your work, you will progress a lot faster than you would otherwise.

nyin · Aug 21, 2018

uradamus said:
You just want to get something down so you can start making value judgments on that work and make the big changes early on when they aren't so costly and mistakes aren't hard to fix. That willingness to just jump in, even blindly at times, ought to help a lot with getting over the emotional speed bumps that are always looking to slow us down. If you can foster and embrace a love for experimentation in your work, you will progress a lot faster than you would otherwise.

^ You know, that sounds like a good idea. It's kinda like sketching before the final work is made clear. Thanks, I'll be sure to try and apply that.

DarthSeduction said:
So what I do is have the two of them swap in and out of narrating the montage, and it allows me to cement this idea that they are in fact close twins, finishing one another's thoughts, picking up from where the last one left off and completing the story.

^ That's a very clever way to achieve the purpose of showing how close they are. Very clear imagery. I've also used small bits of connective inner dialogue between characters, but just for a light touch of comedy.

GuyFreely said:
Yeah I'm not saying write 8 hours a day, I'm saying try not to stop for long periods of time (days/weeks).

^ I understand, I won't let my momentum fizzle out.

GuyFreely said:
My problem is that I'll be lying in bed when I should be sleeping and I mentally write a page of dialogue then I go to write it later and I'm like "how did it go again?"

^ I've totally experienced that, too. Now, I scramble for my phone before I forget lol

DarthSeduction · Aug 21, 2018

uradamus said:
It can help to take some time to plan. Start with some big picture goals, then break those down into the sub-goals that you need to hit along the way to reach the main one. Keep breaking them down until they can't be broken down any further. If you do this in a checklist format, then you'll have both a way to keep track of progress and any time you are feeling unsure what to do, you can turn to your list and find something that strikes your fancy and hopefully spurs you on towards some productive work. It doesn't have to be perfect, or even complete, it just needs to remind you of what you've still got ahead and what you've already accomplished. You can keep adding to, removing from and refining your list as time goes on and your project(s) evolve.

Also don't be afraid to make mistakes; they are your greatest teacher. Along the same vein, don't be too precious about your work, be willing to throw things away and iterate. I always start things off rough and loose; working fast and not worrying at all about polish. This goes for art, writing, coding, etc. You just want to get something down so you can start making value judgments on that work and make the big changes early on when they aren't so costly and mistakes aren't hard to fix. That willingness to just jump in, even blindly at times, ought to help a lot with getting over the emotional speed bumps that are always looking to slow us down. If you can foster and embrace a love for experimentation in your work, you will progress a lot faster than you would otherwise.

Absolutely this, for Seraphim I have an outline I made, that outline details out 12 releases, which is my minimum goal. I can tell already that I'll have to split some of them up, but that's the general goal. Then when I set up to go ahead and make my release, since I'm using ren'py, I label all the scenes I want to do. Then, if I have a really good idea for how to set up that scene I'll write down some opening art direction/narration that primes me so that I know where I'm starting with the scene. Just that alone helps to get my creative juices flowing. Then I try to write at least one scene whenever I set down to write. The last time, I wrote 2. Last week alone I finished like 4 or 5 of them. All because I was feeling good and had the creative juices flowing. I'll probably write another scene today, as ideas are flowing through my brain right now on how to do it right.

This one is one of my harder ones. I have a lot to set up still, characters to introduce, drama to unfold, and almost none of it even deals with the central conflict that will drive this story forward. But each of these labels helps to keep me in focus. It's amazing how much it helps. So, if you can always outline as much as you can. Art direction is also helpful. It lets you cue up what you want the scene to look like, it allows you to visualize things. And that visualization is important, at least to me, to help me see how things go forward. Things like characters who are present, even if they aren't doing much in the scene. I've got one character who wasn't even important to the scene at all that I made sure to put in a scene in a certain way, because it gave me a way to help seed this rivalry between two of the characters without making the one who I want you to empathize with more, see as a charismatic figure who deserves her status, come off as a Regina George, as she did in my initial draft.

HopesGaming · Aug 21, 2018

1. As GuyFreely said, nothing wrong with small breaks.
2. Just render some stuff for fun. When I have writer's block I just mess around with daz3 (or whatever software you use to create stuff)
3. Open your script and smash the keyboard. And delete. Usually, it's not the writing in itself that is the problem, but rather to 'begin' it.
4. Watch a movie that is in the same genre as your game. Get some inspiration that will spark that fire.
5. Make a side story.

Most important thing is - get your fire back. A game without love from the dev is a dead game. Which is why so many dev abandon their game because they started to make the game how the people wanted instead of how they themselves envision the game to be.

I need to clarify that the last bit was not about you nyin. But about games that got abandon.
Yours is just a normal burnout that happens to us all, haha.

nyin · Aug 21, 2018

DarthSeduction said:
Absolutely this, for Seraphim I have an outline I made, that outline details out 12 releases, which is my minimum goal.

I'm a little hesitant with outlines, because sometimes when I have such a solid idea for point B, it makes my creative juices just come to a halt when trying to write out point A; but, when I decide to let go of my grip on point B, point A seems to have endless open doorways. Another time, I completely outlined the whole plot of a particular story I was really excited about, and because it was so clearly and completely visualized in my head, it fulfilled me to the point that my motivation to manifest it, materially, just evaporated! lol. Just my own little weird limitations, I guess.

HopesGaming said:
Open your script and smash the keyboard. And delete.

^Lol! I'm thinking about a certain keyboard smashing gif. Followed by your "And delete."

HopesGaming said:
Most important thing is - get your fire back. A game without love from the dev is a dead game. Which is why so many dev abandon their game because they started to make the game how the people wanted instead of how they themselves envision the game to be.

^ This is soo on point. Thanks for this reminder, and the general advice.

HopesGaming said:
4. Watch a movie that is in the same genre as your game. Get some inspiration that will spark that fire.

^ This will definitely get me "fired up" *ahem* LOL. Just might get tooo distracted, if you know what I mean...:tf:

DarthSeduction · Aug 21, 2018

nyin said:
Another time, I completely outlined the whole plot of a particular story I was really excited about, and because it was so clearly and completely visualized in my head, it fulfilled me to the point that my motivation to manifest it, materially, just evaporated! lol. Just my own little weird limitations, I guess.

When I started work on Seraphim, it was a completely different idea. Currently it's a mystery thriller with a really interesting resolution set in a private girls high school. Initially it was college freshmen and the whole story revolved more around Eve justifying her Polyamory than anything of substance. A lot of that is still in this though. Eve is still very polyamorous, all for the same reasons as well. The characters didn't change much either, though changing it to a private high school and creating the scholarship for a seniors only program allowed me to better realize certain things that were set up in that initial story. But other things, like Luke, the boy who Eve may or may not have lost her virginity to (depending on whether you let it happen or not) is completely new, something I had to add to avoid exposition dumps, but adding him ended up really working into my larger plot in fun ways.

All of this is to say that just because you have an outline, doesn't mean it's a solid unchanging piece of gospel. You can still make changes, you can still modify sections. But it gives you a sort of goal, and steps to hit along the way. One thing that I think is important, and may help you, is aside from the central conflict and Eve's overarching story, I have plenty of subplots going on. The Character Erin is gonna be sucked up into a bit of an extremist group, and it's gonna be up to Eve to sort of bring her back, the two characters I talked about previously, who are in a rivalry, will soon resolve itself to change the "politics" of the school, when one comes out on top. There are several smaller romantic entanglements in the story, girls with crushes on other girls, but not brave enough to voice them. All of these little side stories give me ways to continue developing the overall plot without getting bored, and allow for smaller goals that I have to meet along the way allowing me to progress to the point B without sacrificing the space in between B and A.

thecardinal · Aug 21, 2018

One thing that has liberated me a bit is not doing Patreon pledges per month and accepting donations per game update. No pressure to produce something every single month. I work 60+ hours per week at my jobs, and when I'm feeling uninspired I just play around in Daz and Octane to make my images look better.

nyin · Aug 21, 2018

DarthSeduction said:
All of this is to say that just because you have an outline, doesn't mean it's a solid unchanging piece of gospel. You can still make changes, you can still modify sections. But it gives you a sort of goal, and steps to hit along the way.

^ Yes, I see your point. And subplots!!!- thanks for that reminder.

xcribr · Aug 21, 2018

I usually re-energise by switching stories. Going back and doing some character or set creation work is fun and can build more experience

Deleted member 167032 · Aug 21, 2018

I use to be a surfer (hey brah like totally dude).

I surfed for 18yrs and in that period I got burnt out of too much of a good thing. I left it for a year. One day i got my mojo back.

So what I'm saying is take a break and don't feel guilty. It happens and it will pass. IF it does not your still alive so life is good.
Then if you doing this for other people then you've lost already. IT HAS to be for you, the developing part and it HAS TO be fun.

So like dude, like just chill brah!

.:Lataz:.

Kaffekop · Aug 21, 2018

We all burn out from time to time but @MrKnobb has the right idea: It has to be for you and it has to be fun! The minute it stops being that ... drop it like it was on fire. Take a leave of absence and get that mojo back.

If you're on Patreon, tell your pledges what is going on and that you need some time off ... they'll understand. And those who don't understand ... Fuck'em! They don't know what it takes anyway to do what you do. They think they do, but unless they actually walked a mile in your shoes, they really don't.

Cheers - Kaffekop

Deleted member 167032 · Aug 21, 2018

Spot on...

Love your game by the way...

Kaffekop said:
We all burn out from time to time but @MrKnobb has the right idea: It has to be for you and it has to be fun! The minute it stops being that ... drop it like it was on fire. Take a leave of absence and get that mojo back.

If you're on Patreon, tell your pledges what is going on and that you need some time off ... they'll understand. And those who don't understand ... Fuck'em! They don't know what it takes anyway to do what you do. They think they do, but unless they actually walked a mile in your shoes, they really don't.

Cheers - Kaffekop

nyin · Aug 21, 2018

MrKnobb said:
I use to be a surfer (hey brah like totally dude).

I surfed for 18yrs and in that period I got burnt out of too much of a good thing. I left it for a year. One day i got my mojo back.

So what I'm saying is take a break and don't feel guilty. It happens and it will pass. IF it does not your still alive so life is good.
Then if you doing this for other people then you've lost already. IT HAS to be for you, the developing part and it HAS TO be fun.

So like dude, like just chill brah!

.:Lataz:.

Kaffekop said:
We all burn out from time to time but @MrKnobb has the right idea: It has to be for you and it has to be fun! The minute it stops being that ... drop it like it was on fire. Take a leave of absence and get that mojo back.

If you're on Patreon, tell your pledges what is going on and that you need some time off ... they'll understand. And those who don't understand ... Fuck'em! They don't know what it takes anyway to do what you do. They think they do, but unless they actually walked a mile in your shoes, they really don't.

Cheers - Kaffekop

^Wow! Just last night, after some reflection from the previous posts, I also came to see subtle attachments of trying to fulfill other's expectations. The moment I dropped it, I was able to keep going with as much zest as before. Just now, after I read through your guy's reaffirmation and delivery of that point, it just completely blew my mind, because it made me realize that I was unconsciously doing that in other areas of my life, too. Thank you guys, sooo much. You don't even know, how serious I am. I never expected to find such great sparks of wisdom in this forum for adult games LOL A huge thanks to you guys, and the previous posters as well, for shedding light on my unconscious limitations.

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