"Stereotypes" make all the games look the same.

Carrera

Active Member
Jun 25, 2017
501
1,161
I don't play porn games to be immersed in some super awesome realistic story, I play porn games to be entertained. If I want to be immersed I'd play a AAA game that's MEANT to immerse the player in another world.

I don't watch "The Toxic Avenger" or any "Full Moon Entertainment" or any "B" movie for an Oscar winning performance, I watch them because they're fun.

If I'm playing a porn game I want the entertainment, not the realism or immersion. Play "The Sims" with some adult mods if you really want immersion. It's really immersive to have to shit and piss and go to work etc.

Now some "immersive" things can be in an adult game to make them fun, but if that's what you're after you're definitely playing the wrong type of game. I'd rather authors focus more on making a non stupid story, or at the very least getting their tags right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PsychicStress

CocoVC

Newbie
Aug 10, 2018
76
168
Make characters good-looking, but unique. A slightly hooked nose, freckles, a front tooth gap, a crooked smile, birthmarks- something that makes that character stand out from the other models.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PsychicStress

MissFortune

I Was Once, Possibly, Maybe, Perhaps… A Harem King
Respected User
Game Developer
Aug 17, 2019
4,756
7,831
Looking at people who have a better life than yourself, just increases your depression. No way it's entertaining.
We are under a 360 degrees pressure on this topic. We are surrounded by "extremely beautyful, young, wealthy and happy people" everywhere we look: TV, movies, tabloids, newspapers, internet, social media influencers, shops... All the media point toward the direction of making you feel uncomfortable with your life. Isn't it enough? Do we really need the same also in a niche market as Visual Novels?
Like I said in my previous post. All of those are different vehicles for escapism. People spend all day, every usually slaving away for someone who's only paying you a fraction of their total profits. They swipe on Tinder only to be rejected by women on Tinder because they aren't big/rich/tall enough. They watch porn/play adult games because a lot of women have this unrealistic standard that men need to have six figures in their bank accounts and tall enough to dunk on someone before they even give them the time of day. People read because there's something different to explore beyond their 9 to 5. People watch TV so they can insert themselves into any life that isn't there own. They are all different tools that do the same thing, so people can be something more than themselves, even if only for an hour. It's basic psychology.

Make characters good-looking, but unique. A slightly hooked nose, freckles, a front tooth gap, a crooked smile, birthmarks- something that makes that character stand out from the other models.
That's how you end with something like Light of My Life, an otherwise well-executed and well-written VN that tries so hard to be different that it made it's characters look like a knockoff Hispanic Pixar movie.
 

Jofur

Member
May 22, 2018
251
269
That's how you end with something like Light of My Life, an otherwise well-executed and well-written VN that tries so hard to be different that it made it's characters look like a knockoff Hispanic Pixar movie.
That's an extreme example, but there is a lot of wisdom to his post. An attractive character doesn't automatically has to look like she was copy-pasted from a 90s Playboy magazine. Adding a few unique features is key to making a character that is recognizable and memorable. You should design their appearance in the same way you design someone's personality. Find stuff that makes them unique, give them a flaw, give them a virtue. For example rather than every character in the game having massive breasts, make it a more unique feature so it stands out and feels memorable and special. I've watched/read so much hentai and played so many games where I don't even get any enjoyment out of the tits because they all look exactly the same, and that's just a damn shame.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jaike and Hagatagar

MissFortune

I Was Once, Possibly, Maybe, Perhaps… A Harem King
Respected User
Game Developer
Aug 17, 2019
4,756
7,831
That's an extreme example, but there is a lot of wisdom to his post. An attractive character doesn't automatically has to look like she was copy-pasted from a 90s Playboy magazine. Adding a few unique features is key to making a character that is recognizable and memorable. You should design their appearance in the same way you design someone's personality. Find stuff that makes them unique, give them a flaw, give them a virtue. For example rather than every character in the game having massive breasts, make it a more unique feature so it stands out and feels memorable and special. I've watched/read so much hentai and played so many games where I don't even get any enjoyment out of the tits because they all look exactly the same, and that's just a damn shame.
Oh, I definitely agree. it's an extreme example, but it's something that can quite easily happen if you put too much attention into it. The problem is that there's only so many different looks or appearances out there, both in real life, and even less so if you want to keep them attractive to a broad audience. Some like goth girls, others like nerdy girls, but everyone likes a nice ass and a nice pair of boobs (nothing overblown, not a massive fan of it in games unless everything else is along with it.), and a pretty face to top it off.

Why is a protagonist attracted to said girl/sister/mom/etc? Usually because they're quite attractive, such is the base of an adult game/vn. Freckles or glasses aside (which I think are perfectly reasonable 'flaws'), I think flaws are better served being given to a character's personality. Nobody is going to notice flaws like crooked teeth or a slightly uneven breast, but a flaw created through personality that somehow ties into the storyline(s) creates more impact and/or relatability. A narcissistic celebrity/model searching for redemption after a video of her talking about ugly people gets leaked online or a quiet girl being stepped all over finding a way to say no/fight back, or something of the like has a bit more appeal and/or dimension than a hooked nose. That, of course, means more nuanced writing. Which isn't exactly easy, especially for those with little writing experience. SuperWriter is pretty much this. He makes use of attractive, but rather unchanged figures, and lets his writing carry the load.

Of course, make your character a bit unique, add some morphs, extra padding in the stomach, etc. My point in using Light of My Life was to say don't make that uniqueness the entire identity of your game/vn. If only because attractiveness is completely subjective. The more generically attractive a character is (Megan Fox, for example. Dark hair, average/smaller bust, clear blue-gray eyes, and a fantastic body. Pretty generic sound, but there's a reason she was pretty much unanimously considered the hottest woman on the planet for a while), the broader her appeal will be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 246 and Thermophob

Joshua Tree

Conversation Conqueror
Jul 10, 2017
6,158
6,555
There is a big difference between make ordinary average characters and ordinary "beautiful" characters Vs unrealistic beautiful characters.

Unnatural body proportions not really sexy. You can give a male character a big realistic dick without make porn dudes such as Mandigo seem like have a micro penis.
 

Droid Productions

[Love of Magic]
Donor
Game Developer
Dec 30, 2017
6,688
16,944
What's interesting about LoML is that they're also based on Instagram stars; they're not designed to be *ugly*, just different from the stereotypical daz super-models. Which was why I suggested it to OP; it sounds like exactly what he wanted.

It also shows the problems with that approach; NR's definitely one of the better devs in this space, and yet he's not anywhere near as big as some of the others that went a more commercial path with characters.
 

Lupino

New Member
Dec 5, 2017
12
13
Psychologically speaking, every media (be it game, comic, movie, &c.) is a sort of escapism and a way to "live" one's fantasies without consequences in the real world. Well, unless your parent, spouse, room mate, friend, or significant other catches you, that is...

In our fantasies we want to be bad, rich, successfull, beautiful, well equipped, bold, or any combination of the aforementioned. And we want the subject of our lust be at least on of those, as well. It is only consequential that so many games serve those stereotypes. And this is by no means something new; even in medieval tales it is always the noble knight resqueing the beautiful princess and never the dumb peasant resqueing the ugly witch.

And this is also the reason why so many games break taboos, think of the load of incest games and -patches out there. In those games, the player can live the life he (or she) wouldn't dare (or isn't allowed to be) living for real.
 

CocoVC

Newbie
Aug 10, 2018
76
168
It's about creating memorable characters. I can visualize the girls from Light of My Life even though I've never really played the game; their faces are burned in my head. On the other hand, I find it difficult to visualize the characters from more successful games like Being a DIK and City of Broken Dreamers; they're good-looking but nothing visually stands out. With porn games, you have two options to make memorable characters- make them so stunning that they stand out (the Megan Fox effect) or give them something (like a tattoo or birthmark) to differentiate them from the rest. Of course, this is only if you want players to care about the character. Generic slut #4730? Just put together some random DAZ assets and hit render.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hagatagar

おい!

Engaged Member
Mar 25, 2018
2,576
7,545
When I started development on my game, I went far out of my way to make the girls distinct in size/features/personality/skin color/etc. But in the end, even though content is pretty evenly distributed among my characters, polling shows that my most popular character is the blonde with big boobs. I'm sure some players really like how she's written or the fetishes she leans towards, but there's definitely some correlation to her looks. Ultimately I'm not upset that this was the outcome, but I honestly underestimated how clear the trend is.

I can't fault any developer who goes for easy eye candy for their models if there's such a clear preference for them from the public.
But aren't all of those characters made using Illusion assets? :unsure: If it was not for Illusion, you would not have a game.;) IMO those characters do not look any different to Koikatsu characters.
 

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
Modder
Respected User
Donor
Jun 10, 2017
10,279
15,119
[Precision due to a possible lost of translation effect:
Escapism is something temporary. You take a break in your life by reading a book, watching a movie, or playing a game. But at the end of your break, you return back to your life ; it was a pleasant moment, but it's time to return to reality.
This while dreaming is something more sustainable. You don't project yourself into the story, you project the story into your life. What mean that, at the end of the story, you don't return to your life, a part of you stay in this story ; it's a pleasant moment that, one day, will happen to you for real.]

All of those are different vehicles for escapism. People spend all day, every usually slaving away for someone who's only paying you a fraction of their total profits. They swipe on Tinder only to be rejected by women on Tinder because they aren't big/rich/tall enough. They watch porn/play adult games because a lot of women have this unrealistic standard that men need to have six figures in their bank accounts and tall enough to dunk on someone before they even give them the time of day.
Perhaps am I too old, what make me being totally disconnected from nowadays young adults, but why can't they just stop chasing the impossible ?
When my wife died, I was 39yo, too young for celibacy, and with two children that still needed a woman in their life. After few months I started dating again. One month was enough to understand what girls would reject me because I'm not enough this, or too that, and so make me just ignore them ; I was in search of something real, not a girl craving for superficiality. It happened that I finally gave up after few adventures, but that's something unrelated to what I am, and more due to who I am ; someone still too deeply in love with his wife to have place for someone else.
And where you see escapism, what you wrote make me more think about dream enforcement. Those persons don't search to escape their reality, they try to reinforce their dreams ; "if this MC in the game I just played can have all the girls he want, I also can", and others "if this guy can become a celebrity by making some youtube videos, I also can".


People read because there's something different to explore beyond their 9 to 5. People watch TV so they can insert themselves into any life that isn't there own.
But do this really apply to adult games, where 90% of the time there's near to no effective story, and therefore nothing in what insert yourself, except the fact that the MC have an active sex life and isn't rejected ?
The MCs in those 90% don't live a life effectively different to ours, they just have sex with girls different to the ones we can get. And this again send back to the pursuit of a dream. Instead of stopping to chase the impossible, and try to match with average girls that wouldn't reject the average guy they are, they dream that the MILF next door ask them to clean her pool, and pay them with a wild sex session.

Obviously, this don't apply to everyone. There's people who play because they are in a lonely phase, and others that play because they like the story and want the spicy addition of the lewd. But yet it apply to too many if I believe the amount of "not enough sex"-like comments that can be found in game threads. Those persons don't just want to fap, porn videos would be way better for this, it's sex from start to stop and effective persons not pixels. No, they want the little plus, they want to fap with the impression that it's the reality. They aren't escaping their life, they are dreaming it. And the more they'll dream about this, the more they'll believe that it will happen one day, what make them continue chasing the impossible with even more strength.


Edit: Added the forenote regarding the possible translation issue.
 
Last edited:

drooopy

Active Member
Feb 27, 2021
503
1,249
that's the advice!? Make the LIs uglier & the side characters prettier!?

That's terrible advice, don't do that if you're a dev WHO ACTUALLY TRIES TO MAKE MONEY!
 

Hadley

Well-Known Member
Sep 18, 2017
1,020
1,837
That would be nice, but its just like Movies. The shittier the Movie the more likely you see a random blonde barbie-doll in it. I also hate that in lots of Games the MC is somehow rich. Its always just too extreme, either the Characters are Supermodels or as Ugly as possible.
 

desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
6,079
14,050
I don't mind more plain or realistic models, but it annoys me when devs go out of their way to make girls ugly. Why the hell would I want ugly women in porn? As for horse cock, it's better for male dom so I don't mind. Average size just looks pitiful in 2D/3D.
 

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
Modder
Respected User
Donor
Jun 10, 2017
10,279
15,119
How are they not the same thing?
Well, it's possible that the difference end being lost in translation, so I'll explain it:

Escapism is something temporary. You take a break in your life by reading a book, watching a movie, or playing a game. But at the end of your break, you return back to your life ; it was a pleasant moment, but it's time to return to reality.
This while dreaming is something more sustainable. You don't project yourself into the story, you project the story into your life. What mean that, at the end of the story, you don't return to your life, a part of you stay in this story ; it's a pleasant moment that, one day, will happen to you for real.

Note: also edited my post to add this explanation.
 

Hagatagar

Active Member
Oct 11, 2019
981
2,932
Average size just looks pitiful in 2D/3D.
Perhaps it's also somewhat because we all are so used to seeing and expecting these sizes, especially in pornographic material? So that everything smaller (or even larger) somehow looks wrong? :unsure:

[...] or give them something (like a tattoo or birthmark) to differentiate them from the rest.
Isn't that what all those fancy hairstyles are for? :sneaky:
 

ancienregimele

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2017
1,924
6,303
Stereotypes have made games unplayable for me. If straightforward porn was what I was after, I would just watch porn. Most porn is badly written, with a minimal plot, if there's any plot at all. Real acting skills are in short supply, unlike big tits & huge dicks. This might have been escapism for me once but no longer is. After you've seen various porn movies the genre becomes boring.

I want a proper grown-up erotic story, with characters who look believable. So-called "Moms" with air-bag breasts & teen youths with horse-cocks.....I'm sick of the sight of them. Are these characters designed for adults? That's why there are very few games played by me these days.

Distinctive &/or quirky or even eccentric games & VNs are what I look for. I have my own stereotype in mind of who forms the majority of fans of the current crop of games. They are very well catered for & if they truly are the majority audience, market forces will dictate that things will carry on as they are. All of which is very subjective but if I check out a game & see it's populated with women suffering from beach-ball breast syndrome, I don't play it.

Just as well there are a few developers doing their bit towards getting out of the rut. Hopefully there'll always be something worth looking at.
 

exer

Member
Game Developer
Aug 16, 2017
136
365
I can't speak for anyone else, but I include big "members" in my games because it makes for better animations. If a character has a small/average looking penis, then there can't be much movement and it's not as good to watch. It's just boring when the characters are barely moving and there's nothing to really see. Normal sex is pretty boring to watch, so things need to be sensationalized to keep things interesting.

As for the unrealistic bodies, porn is fantasy. It makes sense for people to want unrealistic things in their fantasies. That being said, I try to make at least some of my characters not just the cookie cutter hot girl. Unless that type makes sense. However, anyone working in 3D is going to be limited a lot. Especially those that work in things like DAZ. Since the whole point of stuff like DAZ is to use assets other people made because they can't create assets themselves. Actually creating models is time consuming and/or expensive, and there aren't many people who can afford that kind of thing. That's why there's so many characters that look the same. They're all having to use the same mix of assets. Also, everyone is different. An identifiable character to one person isn't going to be identifiable to everyone. If the MC of one game is a short white guy with long brown hair, then that's only going to be identifiable to short white guys with long brown hair. There can never be a universally identifiable MC. So it's easiest to just make someone using generic looking assets.

Lastly, a big reason to make side characters (especially female ones) ugly and uninteresting is because if they were attractive, then people would expect them to be included in the game, rather than just be a side character. The story doesn't always call for that, so it's much easier to just make them unattractive so people don't get disappointed when they aren't anything more than a side character. There's also the fantasy aspect of games. People generally don't want to get taken out of the experience, and having a side character that's arguably more attractive or interesting than the MC can very easily do that. It can bring up questions like, "Why am I getting all the ladies when this guy can't, even though they're more attractive?" Which completely breaks the immersion.

I can't speak for anyone else, but this is why I do these things. Hopefully that helps explain at least a little bit of why these things happen a lot.