RPGM Tower of Trample [v1.18.0.4 + Standalone SC3] [Bo Wei/Koda]

[h-kingu]

guys think about Karen like this....if you have watch Akame ga Kill then I'm sure some of you are big fans of Esdeth (me included) while i didn't like Karen's H content much but somehow she reminds me of Esdeth.
that dangerous sadistic nature of her and aura is a big turn on for many people, and torture is part of the package (at least this kinda of torture)
in the end you can't please everyone, not everyone share the same fetishes (for me I don't like armpits, I don't understand how that turn some people on, but I know that they do) it's a fetish regardless,and this game is for fetishists.
I personally like worship fetishes (legs,feet, pussy, ass etc.) i like some waterplay too, hell I have a lot of kinky fetishes but i know that some people don't get turn on by some of them.

in general I liked the content, I liked the (shounen drama) hell even if it's generic af it's still better than having no plot content at all
just beating a jailer after another and climbing the tower seemed bit boring to me regardless of the h content
as it was explained when you first entered her playground, Karen is a top tier boss in the upper floors she was sent to deal with monks and then claimed the floor, it wouldn't make sense to be able to defeat her at your level, thus the surviving gameplay made much sense to me.

personally I'd like to see more of Karen in the future, maybe when you're on her level somehow and beat her, you'd get different interaction and then she will try to tame you like the other jailers, ''the other way'' to defeat you

@Koda- please do take care of Rose's content in the future, I'll love to see what you and bo can do with her

I thank you for this game you guys made....I was feeling down from all the work but then i stumbled upon this game and I took a day off from work just so i can sit home relax and play/fap to the game!

 

[bahamut2195]

I'll spoil slightly that there is a much more explicit hypno/mc character planned, although (ironically?) it's not at all smell-based.

You have my attention. Looking forward to that boss.

I know I give you and Bo Wei a lot of shit, but it's really just because I have high expectation and hold you to high standards. I think most users here do, which causes a lot of the nitpicking and complaining. We Appreciate your work regardless, man.

 

[GearlessJoe]

@Koda I see what you mean about it being hard to extract anything constructive from my criticism, and I'll definitely try to improve on that in the future. As for the Cobra/Lily thing, I did see that line you brought up as the implication that Ethan had lost to Cobra already, I think Lily asking Cobra for the "key to Ethan" is what led me to believe that it wasn't referencing losses that were yet to happen.

Thanks again for coming here to dispel any doubts that this community has! If you don't mind one last question though, what is it exactly that Bo and you didn't quite liked about Lily? I'm not asking because I can't fathom someone not liking the same things I do, I'd like to know so that we can expect those aspects of Lily that aren't exactly up your alley to... be handed out in smaller doses/not come up as frequently. Sorry if my assumption that something like that would happen is wrong, tough.

 

[NeroZee]

@k3k
The anti-monster-girl stance gets taken out of context somewhat. Bo (and I) are more against "obligatory" or contrived content (which monster-girls, especially recently, tend to be). If we have some brilliant Angel or Succubus or Cow-Girl or Kitsune or otherwise supernatural idea, we won't arbitrarily avoid making it. We just won't include any of those things purely on the basis that they're "femdom staples" (which is why they're commonly suggested, along with Loli/GTS/Sissy/etc.).

Hey, love your guys game btw, if you don't mind just wanted to add my 2 cents on this particular paragraph. Obviously you can ignore it or take it into consideration, in the end its up to you and there are no hard feelings.

So my personal stance is that i don't think you guys should worry too much on putting things in the game based on what some people do or dont consider femdom staples. It seems like taking a stance for a very niche reason
Again IMHO and you guys can ultimately do what you want it's your game, but personally i would look into what the people that play my game like. You guys already mentioned how you did Lily even though she isn't in taste with either of you, but the fans wanted it. So if ultimately there is enough interest and if you guys do come up with a good character/story i think a lot of people would love to see a monster-girl type in the game.

Personally i know i'd love to see a Succubus and Succubi tend to fit the femdom genre pretty well and i dont see anything bad with that and with a game like this especially where the more powerful girls are on the top floors it makes sense to have an actual demon/magical female on one of those floors. I just have this idea of Ethan encountering a Succubus on one of the upper floors and at first she doesn't even reveal herself as one so even none of us players know about it either, but maybe after we beat her once or Ethan does something to piss her off, she reveals her horns, wings, tail and he is left frozen in fear and we in shock. The whole encounter has a lot of potential, where you can fight and lose to her in her "human" and demon form, also probably a few real good game endings where she drains him dry of his level or just his life if the level thing is too similar to Cobra or absorbs his soul if he does the righ.. i mean wrong thing.

Anyway my personal fantasies aside, whatever you guys do i will be here to support you along the way. Cheers.

 

[GearlessJoe]

Hey, love your stuff btw, if you don't mind just wanted to add my 2 cents on this particular paragraph. Obviously you can ignore it or take it into consideration, in the end its up to you and there are no hard feelings.

So my personal stance is that i don't think you guys should worry too much on putting things in the game based on what some people do or dont consider femdom staples. It seems like taking a stance for a very niche reason
Again IMHO and you guys can ultimately do what you want it's your game, but personally i would look into what the people that play my game like. You guys already mentioned how you did Lily even though she isn't in taste with either of you, but the fans wanted it. So if ultimately there is enough interest and if you guys do come up with a good character/story i think a lot of people would love to see a monster-girl type in the game.

Personally i know i'd love to see a Succubus and Succubi tend to fit the femdom genre pretty well, with a game like this especially where the more powerful girls are on the top floors it makes sense to have an actual demon/magical creature on one of the top floors. I just have this idea of Ethan encountering a Succubus on one of the upper floors and at first she doesn't even reveal herself as one but maybe after he beats her once or does something to piss her off, she reveals her horns, wings, tails and he is left frozen in fear. The whole encounter has a lot of potential, also probably a few real good game endings where she drains him dry or absorbs his soul, etc...

Anyway my personal fantasies aside, whatever you guys do i will be here to support you along the way. Cheers.

Succubi definitely seem to be in the realm of possibility, Bo has already drawn a bunch of them before. Just don't keep your hopes up for any Lamias or Minotaurs

 

[NeroZee]

Succubi definitely seem to be in the realm of possibility, Bo has already drawn a bunch of them before. Just don't keep your hopes up for any Lamias or Minotaurs

Now that's what i am talking about, although i like my succubus more mature looking like how most of the women in TOT are.

But honestly who doesn't love a succubus?

I wont be too dissapointed personally if i never see a Lamia or a Minotaur in this game, those were never my top priority. Succubi were always number 1 and then Vampire girls and Slime girls. Don't get me wrong i do like other Monster girls but the more monster like features they have the less they appeal to me in particular.

 

[Johnny12]

HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO GET DEF 999???

yes i used Save editor

 

[Koda-]

@Jazer1
Yeah. Like I said, we're not really avoiding anything and could conceivably include anything if we're inspired by an idea for it, we're just not following the "Femdom Bingo" that seems to guide a lot of other games' content.

@GearlessJoe
For the record, we tend to exaggerate our dislike of Lily for memes/banter. That said:

Lily is an expectations nightmare, and has caused a lot of entitlement about the content we create (from people who exclusively like Lily without understanding what the game is about) as well as frustrating accusations that we half-assed her.

For context: Lily was originally planned as a very short (think ToT 0.1.0 pre-expansion Scarlett) palette cleanser. Then I decided to make her a map of her own and a little anime-drama cutscene to introduce it, and Bo (over)did his part with a large number and wide variety of (in my opinion) gorgeous, well-animated, and creative (in terms of pose/concept) CGs.

But because her ending isn't finished and I've mentioned her expansion not being a priority, we apparently put 0 effort into her.

Obviously this isn't the full story. I've been harping about articulation, and indeed most people lamenting Lily are in fact her biggest fans caught in an uncanny-valley-esque despair of how good she is already versus how close they feel she is to full realization, anchored by the knowledge that it's not likely to happen any time soon. Their opinions will probably reverse when Lily/the game is complete, which as I've mentioned is the state I design towards (rather than perfect patch-by-patch satisfaction).

Still, a sense of "if they thought THAT was 0 effort, they'll never be satisfied, so why bother?" can't help but linger, especially for a character we aren't personally super inspired about.

Contrast with Cobra: people can flame her expansion all they want because I thought it was hot as hell (though I'll be the first to admit some execution flaws) and Cobra Expansion II will eventually occur even if literally no one wants it but me (as will further content for any other "unresolved" expansions, for anyone panicking).

In terms of her "in-universe" issues, I try to keep my personal preferences to myself so people don't get distracted and write weird psychoanalyses about them (ahem, such as 2k word essays on why a pegging scene (designed by me) somehow means Bo is a closet futa-fetishist) or assume some off-hand comment is an exhaustive portrait of my sexuality.

That said, I'll start with the good: I love how Bo did her art. Her high contrast, well-textured outfit. Bright eyes and hair. Super-suckable blue gloves. Definitely want to nuzzle her which makes her light pet-theme dangerous. Mentioned the ero-CG quality already.

As for the bad: her being younger/shorter(?) than the PC is problematic. I wanna be the qt shota dominated by hot milfs. Onee-types (Rose?) are an acceptable substitute, but younger girls are not. I even get jealous of Balwin and the younger 6F monks. Thus any encounter with Lily requires me to mentally "age-correct" PC and Lily somewhat (which I do to an extent with everyone, but it's usually an emphasis of a difference that's already there, rather than an inversion).

I also don't like her personality at all. I don't really have a female supremacy fetish, so her anti-male stance is mostly just annoying and feels unearned. You can sort of sell me on it from someone like Karen or Yvonne who presumably came to such conclusions by defeating most/all males they personally encounter, but Lily doesn't have that clout.

And clout is a big factor on its own. Scarlett, Eliza, and Cobra are mature women using PC's naivete to manipulate him even after losing in combat. Their domination of the PC is a reflection and affirmation of their seductiveness. Yvonne, Khulan, and Karen earn the right to belittle you by kicking your ass.

Lily is just some brat, so having her "win" just feels like rewarding bad behavior. I understand that the bitchy girl who gets away with it is some people's fetish, but not my thing. I need to be able to respect the domme.

And all of this builds into the hesitation with her expansion. For me, the ideal Lily expansion is some sort of "she gets over herself, becomes stronger than you (or at least comparable), and becomes your domme/trainer with more of a GFD or Master/pet vibe depending on how much you tolerate/encourage the latter."

But all I ever see is "I want the dream to be real!" and I just have 0 inspiration (presently) for pushing that direction any further. I can't think of anything to say for it besides "Ok, it's real. Game Over," and the Yvonne-esque post Game Over daily life that I think people want is fine, but something I'm way less interested in writing for Lily compared with Scarlett/Eliza/Cobra (if I take their endings in that direction).

Like I said: I'm a big softie, so the thought of Lily actually betraying her family/friends and becoming a weird evil pirate queen semi-mc'd by the magical engine of her own wishes while also ruining the PC's quest is just... no thanks.

But it's worth noting that Yvonne's Expansion technically started in April (this is when I asked Bo for the boots asset since the minigame was the first big idea I had for her) and was basically in limbo, slowly coalescing snippets of ideas, until I finally had a eureka moment about how I wanted to execute it, and I think it turned out great despite her not being a character I was super fond of. Maybe Lily will turn out similarly.

Also, her self-proclaimed biggest fan (if ya'll wanna fight it out don't @ me) on Discord will apparently be sending me a dump of their dankest Lily ideas sometime, so people here want to join that train, go ahead.

 

[NeroZee]

Yeah. Like I said, we're not really avoiding anything and could conceivably include anything if we're inspired by an idea for it, we're just not following the "Femdom Bingo" that seems to guide a lot of other games' content.

Like i said i am with you guys, all the way. I know you will come up with things to satisfy us in the end. I only recently discovered this game and it's one of my favorites, because it satisfies my niche fantasies perfectly.

Contrast with Cobra: people can flame her expansion all they want because I thought it was hot as hell (though I'll be the first to admit some execution flaws) and Cobra Expansion II will eventually occur even if literally no one wants it but me (as will further content for any other "unresolved" expansions, for anyone panicking).

I want it! 100% there for more Cobra content, best expansion so far IMO.

Particularly all the hypno stuff with her and her poisons.

 

[GearlessJoe]

@Jazer1
Yeah. Like I said, we're not really avoiding anything and could conceivably include anything if we're inspired by an idea for it, we're just not following the "Femdom Bingo" that seems to guide a lot of other games' content.

@GearlessJoe
For the record, we tend to exaggerate our dislike of Lily for memes/banter. That said:

Lily is an expectations nightmare, and has caused a lot of entitlement about the content we create (from people who exclusively like Lily without understanding what the game is about) as well as frustrating accusations that we half-assed her.

For context: Lily was originally planned as a very short (think ToT 0.1.0 pre-expansion Scarlett) palette cleanser. Then I decided to make her a map of her own and a little anime-drama cutscene to introduce it, and Bo (over)did his part with a large number and wide variety of (in my opinion) gorgeous, well-animated, and creative (in terms of pose/concept) CGs.

But because her ending isn't finished and I've mentioned her expansion not being a priority, we apparently put 0 effort into her.

Obviously this isn't the full story. I've been harping about articulation, and indeed most people lamenting Lily are in fact her biggest fans caught in an uncanny-valley-esque despair of how good she is already versus how close they feel she is to full realization, anchored by the knowledge that it's not likely to happen any time soon. Their opinions will probably reverse when Lily/the game is complete, which as I've mentioned is the state I design towards (rather than perfect patch-by-patch satisfaction).

Still, a sense of "if they thought THAT was 0 effort, they'll never be satisfied, so why bother?" can't help but linger, especially for a character we aren't personally super inspired about.

Contrast with Cobra: people can flame her expansion all they want because I thought it was hot as hell (though I'll be the first to admit some execution flaws) and Cobra Expansion II will eventually occur even if literally no one wants it but me (as will further content for any other "unresolved" expansions, for anyone panicking).

In terms of her "in-universe" issues, I try to keep my personal preferences to myself so people don't get distracted and write weird psychoanalyses about them (ahem, such as 2k word essays on why a pegging scene (designed by me) somehow means Bo is a closet futa-fetishist) or assume some off-hand comment is an exhaustive portrait of my sexuality.

That said, I'll start with the good: I love how Bo did her art. Her high contrast, well-textured outfit. Bright eyes and hair. Super-suckable blue gloves. Definitely want to nuzzle her which makes her light pet-theme dangerous. Mentioned the ero-CG quality already.

As for the bad: her being younger/shorter(?) than the PC is problematic. I wanna be the qt shota dominated by hot milfs. Onee-types (Rose?) are an acceptable substitute, but younger girls are not. I even get jealous of Balwin and the younger 6F monks. Thus any encounter with Lily requires me to mentally "age-correct" PC and Lily somewhat (which I do to an extent with everyone, but it's usually an emphasis of a difference that's already there, rather than an inversion).

I also don't like her personality at all. I don't really have a female supremacy fetish, so her anti-male stance is mostly just annoying and feels unearned. You can sort of sell me on it from someone like Karen or Yvonne who presumably came to such conclusions by defeating most/all males they personally encounter, but Lily doesn't have that clout.

And clout is a big factor on its own. Scarlett, Eliza, and Cobra are mature women using PC's naivete to manipulate him even after losing in combat. Their domination of the PC is a reflection and affirmation of their seductiveness. Yvonne, Khulan, and Karen earn the right to belittle you by kicking your ass.

Lily is just some brat, so having her "win" just feels like rewarding bad behavior. I understand that the bitchy girl who gets away with it is some people's fetish, but not my thing. I need to be able to respect the domme.

And all of this builds into the hesitation with her expansion. For me, the ideal Lily expansion is some sort of "she gets over herself, becomes stronger than you (or at least comparable), and becomes your domme/trainer with more of a GFD or Master/pet vibe depending on how much you tolerate/encourage the latter."

But all I ever see is "I want the dream to be real!" and I just have 0 inspiration (presently) for pushing that direction any further. I can't think of anything to say for it besides "Ok, it's real. Game Over," and the Yvonne-esque post Game Over daily life that I think people want is fine, but something I'm way less interested in writing for Lily compared with Scarlett/Eliza/Cobra (if I take their endings in that direction).

Like I said: I'm a big softie, so the thought of Lily actually betraying her family/friends and becoming a weird evil pirate queen semi-mc'd by the magical engine of her own wishes while also ruining the PC's quest is just... no thanks.

But it's worth noting that Yvonne's Expansion technically started in April (this is when I asked Bo for the boots asset since the minigame was the first big idea I had for her) and was basically in limbo, slowly coalescing snippets of ideas, until I finally had a eureka moment about how I wanted to execute it, and I think it turned out great despite her not being a character I was super fond of. Maybe Lily will turn out similarly.

Also, her self-proclaimed biggest fan (if ya'll wanna fight it out don't @ me) on Discord will apparently be sending me a dump of their dankest Lily ideas sometime, so people here want to join that train, go ahead.

Wow, wasn't expecting such a detailed response. I admit to having written some of those essays myself. I guess to those of us outside the discord you guys seem like a real mystery (especially Bo), so I tried to shoddily fill in the gaps with some wild theories or something, sorry about that. Still, it's great to have some insight into the creative process that ToT is a result of, I'm sure it'll discourage any other dummies like myself from misrepresenting you further.
Even knowing that more Lily/Rose stuff is a long ways off, I'm feeling a little more excited about what you've got in store for us. I'd never have guessed you were such a softie, and I'm kinda glad you're making an effort to balance out Bo's... more extreme tendencies. And your comment about Onee-sans being a substitue for MILFs in some cases also fills me with hope that they'll get some much needed representation in ToT!

 

[fanboi]

I'll spoil slightly that there is a much more explicit hypno/mc character planned, although (ironically?) it's not at all smell-based.

Oh man, between this and Cobra Expansion II being a thing you just made my day!

 

[c-+]

Pretty cool that bahamut, Gearless, and Koda (and others, but the main convo/s that I felt had potential to go south really quick seemed to be between them three) could actually talk to each other like rational, reasonable human beings.

One thing I will say is that I personally try to be a bit ambiguous with this sort of thing. People often ask if the "smell magic" is real or if the PC just has an overwhelming foot fetish that's abstracted as mind control. For the most part, I leave it to the reader to find a spot on that spectrum that works for them.

I'd say that the "smell magic" has to exist on some level though because Keith tells you to specifically avoid Scar's feet because it is much more dangerous. He could just know Ethan has a massive foot fetish, but then there's also the fact that he was playing the shoe game and said "she's not that bad..." so when he says her feet are dangerous it's implied more from his own experience. Howard mentions liking Yvonne's smell as well. Even more so with these monks, almost all of them broke due to Karen's smell. Karen clearly expected it, too. Knowing she could have done it to them or Ethan any time she wanted despite not knowing them and what they liked. These are events somewhat separate from Ethan so it feels like it can't just be Ethan. All of the fighters would have to have smell fetishes being abstracted as mind control, etc. Or something inherent that all boys have.

I'll spoil slightly that there is a much more explicit hypno/mc character planned, although (ironically?) it's not at all smell-based.

Whew lad. Sounds good. For the record I'm a fan of non smell based hypno stuff as well as smell.

The "Karen's Slave" or "Karen's Pet" or "10th Stage of Dehumanization" (ie. the Good/"True" Bad Ends) will come when you challenge her on her real floor later and prove you're worth truly breaking (in theory; no these aren't promises or announcements).

Yeah I was actually thinking about saying it's important to note that this is essentially an end game fish who plopped herself into your very small pond. She's less of a boss and more a "colossal force you need to find a way to survive." An interesting change.

I'm glad you're giving us the ability to not entirely lose to her though. The best part about something like that is I can still just ignore it and choose for it to feel mandatory to lose to her, too, because of the nature of how the boss works, but it still makes sense for us not to lose because she only said we needed to survive, and she doesn't want to break her toy too early so it fits for her to not completely beat you: it'd be too easy and she'd be risking breaking your mind too early.

Also @GearlessJoe, I get the idea was more your concern about the direction the creators were going regarding a lack of choice. But for something like Cobra, you can worse-case scenario always just go in and edit the dialogue yourself, too. Since there's no actual cutscene depicting you losing that you have to worry about. Again, I'm not saying this as a way of saying "you should never have brought it up", instead more a gesture of good will/suggestion of some ways you can make things more to your liking.

I actually did something similar with regard to battle dialogue. For example, when Yvonne CQC's you, she always asks you what age you started fighting. So I put a switch in that was checked for, and if the switch is already on she won't say that, so she'll only ask once, and she'll say something else instead (no need for her to ask questions to stuff she already knows).

But, I actually went a little crazy with this and did it for all of Scar's moves and most of Yvonne's, making it so that they won't repeat lines of dialogue that I didn't want them to repeat, and instead will say something more generic the second+ time/s around, rather than the very specific lines. Like Scarlett says "hey don't drool on me" when putting you in headscissors. The second time around she'd say "drooling again?" or "Haha!" instead, etc. This is definitely a different scenario and context, but I bring it up because it's me personalizing the game to my liking when I can get away with it, much like you'd be with Cobra.

Contrast with Cobra: people can flame her expansion all they want because I thought it was hot as hell (though I'll be the first to admit some execution flaws) and Cobra Expansion II will eventually occur even if literally no one wants it but me (as will further content for any other "unresolved" expansions, for anyone panicking).

I suppose I should count myself pretty lucky then, because Cobra is definitely my favorite (though I like the look of Scarlett more). I'm not going to lie, I kind of wish there was an option to continue on without actually beating her. Like, if you go back and grind up enough levels and then actually give them to her instead of beating her and some other things in between that, she's just all like "ah okay, you can have the key and I'll invest stats in you so you can climb the higher floors and bring me back more levels" Not that her difficulty or "beat-ability" should be changed, just that if you play your cards right, instead of turning into a shoe you can initiate the level-slave thing without beating her once (the shoe thing would still be a possibility if you don't play your cards right). And it could be obscure/not easy to do so as to encourage you beating her as the normal progression/people don't pass the floor the "not able to beat her" way by accident. An option like that would just help solidify her as "THA QWEEN" in my eyes.

 

[waterboy]

is karen full fight gonna be far away

 

[K30]

Hello, I hope not to disturb. Can you explain what strategy to use to defeat Karen?

 

[waterboy]

Hello, I hope not to disturb. Can you explain what strategy to use to defeat Karen?

make sure to grab block and use insulation and every turn u dont attack she get a power boast and to reset the power boast attack her and to get out of the move where she trample you with her boot and make u smells her feet you have to block

 

[windyhome1]

Does wagering coins lead to anything if you win?

 

[k3k]

just money and resets the counter that allows you to look in her bedroom again

 

[Ryonaman]

Why Karen has all this interesting bdsm stuff but never uses it on Ethan? I was really expecting a scene with St Andrews cross at the very least.

 

[Ryonaman]

Does wagering coins lead to anything if you win?

You just get more money, you can get stupid rich with that. If you lose you get a ballbusting and facesitting scene.

 

[LeonOne994]

@k3k
Probably tomorrow night.
Adding some lewd stuff in addition to the mechanical so it's taking a bit longer.

@guileguileguileguile / @fanboi
The boot-focus is mostly a fluke of Yvonne's Expansion and Karen's release aligning. I don't believe the next boss is boot focused and mine certainly isn't (though I do like them, obviously). Feet/smell will probably be present for every boss simply due to Bo's tastes, though.

@GearlessJoe
But that criticism isn't yours. It might align with how you feel, but the point I'm making is that your articulation (ie. what you actually type) is problematic. If my "short version" is all you were trying to say, just type that next time and omit the drama and psychoanalysis.

I looked into the Cobra thing and the only line I saw that could be construed as what you're describing is: "...are you just trying to give me credit so your losses seem less humiliating~?", which is meant to include (and presume) future/eventual losses, not necessarily imply you lost already.

The issue is sort of moot since there will absolutely be bosses you're forced to lose to, but Cobra isn't one of them and I'm willing to make an adjustment if I presented her improperly somewhere. If you remember the exact line/section, show me.

As for forcing content on the player. The thresholds vary from person to person, and if yours is more conservative than the one we design the game with (which it seems to be), you may indeed be unhappy at points. That said, your personal threshold also isn't universal, so while you may think I'm underestimating the average player's, you might just be especially sensitive to this type of thing. Obviously this is hard to determine without more feedback from a variety of players, but your weigh-in is noted.

@zombieslave776
No worries. Just raised an eyebrow when you made the eldritch comparison (which I actually think is great for Karen) because I thought "has this guy never seen mind-flayer lewds? missing out!". Totally understand if it's just not your thing.

The anti-monster-girl stance gets taken out of context somewhat. Bo (and I) are more against "obligatory" or contrived content (which monster-girls, especially recently, tend to be). If we have some brilliant Angel or Succubus or Cow-Girl or Kitsune or otherwise supernatural idea, we won't arbitrarily avoid making it. We just won't include any of those things purely on the basis that they're "femdom staples" (which is why they're commonly suggested, along with Loli/GTS/Sissy/etc.).

That may disappoint you if you don't like supernatural elements, but Bo absolutely considers the game primarily a foot-fetish game (its apparent tilt towards more general femdom fare is the fault of my expansions), so some foot/sock/stocking/boot/smell/etc. will basically always be a main focus.

@bahamut2195
I agree "realism" is a clunky description in this context. Your description of Scarlett versus Karen's methods I think is a better unpacking of what some people are actually feeling. One thing I will say is that I personally try to be a bit ambiguous with this sort of thing. People often ask if the "smell magic" is real or if the PC just has an overwhelming foot fetish that's abstracted as mind control. For the most part, I leave it to the reader to find a spot on that spectrum that works for them.

I'll spoil slightly that there is a much more explicit hypno/mc character planned, although (ironically?) it's not at all smell-based.

@Brakalt
I consider the Menagerie End to be the first true Bad End (and may even edit the final text to mark it as one), so being freaked out is totally reasonable. It is bad both in the sense that something bad happens to the PC, it lacks the happiness-in-mindbreak elements of Yvonne's and Khulan's ends, and it represents a premature ending to Karen's potential story.

Perhaps too premature, as I know some people ( @n_SNeK ) were hoping for something more involved. But the player / PC doesn't earn much in that ending. All you did was constantly lose to Karen and bore her, and since you're last in line, there isn't even anyone left to distress by dragging out your destruction. So she basically gives you a coup-de-grace and then leaves you in a cage like the rest of them.

The "Karen's Slave" or "Karen's Pet" or "10th Stage of Dehumanization" (ie. the Good/"True" Bad Ends) will come when you challenge her on her real floor later and prove you're worth truly breaking (in theory; no these aren't promises or announcements).

Obviously that won't change the ending feeling short and unsatisfying to some in general (we do have limited time, sorry!), but there was also an element of not wanting to "give up the goods" on Karen too early.

Damn, you guys are really cool for even reading through our free loader comments so thank you
The floor was the best one yet in my opinion so great job with that the only negative I have are the delays, but I am sure you heard enough of those comments and that it wasn't because you guys were being dicks
as for your comments
1. A hypnotist character would fit the game really well I think, it would be completely different then he stuff we have seen so far And the character could be really attractive as well
2. I love that the floor had an actual ending without them I always felt like the floors were missing something, so I do think that we should have an ending for each floor at release from now on, like if you lose 10 times you get a choice to submit and the boss of the floor finishes you off, a scene or two won't take a long time I think Considering Eliza got a whole secret room in a months time, I think that Bo would manage it in 30-45 days
3. Any tit bit spoilers about your floor? Aside from the character being "regal"?
P.s. I am clamoring for a Witch character so if you ever add her, put my npc in a cell or something
P.s.s. An idea for the Cobra II update, the Halloween thing you did for her was amazing, better than the update (which I loved) so maybe an ending like that? Yeah I really like endings don't block me