I will just add to this that this doesn't take much time these days. I can train a simple CNN based classifier with >99% accuracy and virtually 0% false negative rate in a few minutes on a single workstation. Data prep is a little bit more involved to eliminate biases but it barely counts as a challenge if your main concern is identifying a single class.
Sites have accordingly been using this approach over (or more accurately in combination with) hashes for years. There is an issue with adversarial networks trained to mask images and mess with classification, see the University of Chicago's Nightshade as an example, but that's a whole different ball game.
I think this is a little disingenuous as well, not everybody paid for an animation gallery. The game was originally advertised as something completely different and even now any user that visits the Steam store page certainly isn't going to be expecting a F2P animation viewer from descriptions like this:
There are all sorts of mentions littered about for features they don't have, aren't developing or have removed. It's hardly surprising that there are a lot of salty backers especially combined with the piss poor development and project management standards.
Yeah you can train an ai incredible fast. That doesent mean that its going to be 100% giving you the result you want.
And Discord is using some kind of ai to detect naughty stuff anyway and it works which one can see when you have your content filter on and cant see or recieve things. That doesent mean that it can 100% pick a legal from a borderline legal to an illegal ai pic off a hald naked woman.
And problem with training an ai for detecting illegal material is that you will have to feed it illegal material to begin with, which is illegal to possess if your not part of the authorities
So no not everyone can just make an ai filter for illegal content as the production of one would incrimminate you.
As for the Content the game promised and what is delivered there are about 3 major components im aware of.
1st group are the users that never wanted project lovecraft but paid for only fallen doll as single player game.
I dont know the promised scope of that game but it probably was a bit better than what was delivered in that last client for that project. So i feel for them but you cant really go back now and i think a big part of that group has come to terms which the new direction or left and wont look back anymore.
And that group isnt really in the pay 27 dollars for the beta group as they never paid for the lovecraft but for the fallen doll game.
2nd group are the ones that came for Gala. This is the group that i have to admit i dont give a shit about as gala will now come to the game as she is signed off on steam terms. Which wont make all of that group happy but noone sane cares about that or them. imo she was helios biggest idiocracy of this project to begin with.
3rd group is the one that wants sfw gameplay.
That can actually happen or not? Who knows at this point?
He said he tried and failed so far to make something good ... that doesent mean that hes not trying again or that he never tried.
And there are as i mentioned a lot of game out there that failed at delivering promises or are still in development with no end in sight.
I personally would be very surprised if that sfw part will make people happy tho if it ever comes into fruition and that is just based on the observation that all people have to base their expections on are some rumors and vague descriptions people can interpreted a lot into it and people always imagine more than what is brought to the table at the end.
And i dont want to defend it as a 100% not scam i wanted to put out that the youtubers 100% proof that he cited in the second vid was just horseshit.
The source was a sore looser that was seeked and gained revenge.
And the youtuber gained some clicks and those vids got a shitton more clicks than anything else hes making, so it worked.
(Edit add: I wouldnt be too suprised if those vids brought actually more people into helios patreon. As in even bad press is press).
I also have to admit that i think i never watched part 3 of that series as i had enough seen by part 2 And i dont care what that guy puts out since hes really talking out of his ass 90% of his time or picks a little fight with some random guy from a discord.
I give you my 2cents whats going on with this shitshow of a game.
I think it is a given that helios is a bit of a weirdo compared to the general populous to being with for even doing a game like this and as one can see on the lovecraft part for the content of it.
Hes a liar (edit add: imo) and was overselling himself to begin with. The whole AAA industry Dev class shit when all you can find about him is some side project of also some translations or something of some shitgame noone in the west have heard or cared off. Not that all professional are known but he really has some serious dev flaws and i highly doubt you can survive in any company having these for more than 6 months.
Hes definetly not a good programmer and has some serious flaws when it comes to project management and quality/shit being bugfree.
Hes definetly not born to be a community manager or to handle one.
But the Discord wasent his to begin with so that whole thing isnt really his fault or was his problem to handle, or at least it wasent until a few month back. I guess hes now more involved or at least has the key to the Discord and therefor the responsibillity i guess. But im not a 100% on that could still be the original creater of that discord chan that holds the key to that.
He has a proven track record of switching from important dev matters to unimportant ones or of poor decision making in general. Just mention here for good measure some breast milk teasing on discord he did when that would have been the last thing anyone sane would have worked on at that point in time. But i guess he took a page of elons book and is now always seelling the next big thing to keep intrest and hopes up. Or take the whole fiasco of taking the game for a month offline after last years big refactoring/erica (edit:correction:celia) update. What a shitshow that was.
And there are of course other things like the never to be realised motion capturing that was promised / teased.
You can still find some shitty youtube vid of his he probably produced via some playstation cam hack of some other low effort means as what is shown there seems to be easily achievable at home at low cost and no studio is needed.
AS for development time frames. Well that one is really hard to have a take on as there are quite a lot of factors that goes into that. For one the Skill of the Dev handling the engine and the management, which we have established isnt that great in both parts. So he wastes a lot of time and he does makes a shitton of errors Or at least he has a proven track record of being super sloppy and doesent give a shit what he presents to his customers. That part really is just an insult at times.
I would not tell anyone to buy into this if they cant loose 30 bucks for some drama and fap animations and not being salty about it if nothing else will ever come of this
edit: add so i think its pretty save to say that hes not the most trustworthy dev out there
If something is then a scam or not is at this point in time more of an interpretion of scam and at which point in time you bought into this shitshow and what your expectiotions are.
Same could be said about something like star citizen a project that is also called a scam by a large portion of its commnunity and still loved by the other.
Yeah you can train an ai incredible fast. That doesent mean that its going to be 100% giving you the result you want.
And Discord is using some kind of ai to detect naughty stuff anyway and it works which one can see when you have your content filter on and cant see or recieve things. That doesent mean that it can 100% pick a legal from a borderline legal to an illegal ai pic off a hald naked woman.
And problem with training an ai for detecting illegal material is that you will have to feed it illegal material to begin with, which is illegal to possess if your not part of the authorities
So no not everyone can just make an ai filter for illegal content as the production of one would incrimminate you.
Yeah I was just highlighting that it's not difficult and the approach has been in widespread use for years, as your original comment seemed to suggest that it was something we're only now transitioning to. Imagenet was a decade ago now. ML isn't a new approach, especially for computer vision. It's just the media attention around generative models that is recent.
As for your last comment the typical approach is to just build two classifiers. One to classify pornographic content, which most platforms need anyway, and an additional one to put age of subjects in a range. Both types of classifier can be trained very easily or you can just download the weights for a model online (there are quite a few).
3rd group is the one that wants sfw gameplay.
That can actually happen or not? Who knows at this point?
He said he tried and failed so far to make something good ... that doesent mean that hes not trying again or that he never tried.
And there are as i mentioned a lot of game out there that failed at delivering promises or are still in development with no end in sight.
I personally would be very surprised if that sfw part will make people happy tho if it ever comes into fruition and that is just based on the observation that all people have to base their expections on are some rumors and vague descriptions people can interpreted a lot into it and people always imagine more than what is brought to the table at the end.
As an aside I don't think anybody ever wanted SFW gameplay. They wanted a NSFW game with a functional gameplay loop incorporating adult content.
Helius' proposal to split the game into NSFW and SFW was weird as fuck to say the least and I don't think any but the hardest superfans/Helius alt accounts had anything positive to say about it.
Yeah I was just highlighting that it's not difficult and the approach has been in widespread use for years, as your original comment seemed to suggest that it was something we're only now transitioning to. Imagenet was a decade ago now. ML isn't a new approach, especially for computer vision. It's just the media attention around generative models that is recent.
As for your last comment the typical approach is to just build two classifiers. One to classify pornographic content, which most platforms need anyway, and an additional one to put age of subjects in a range. Both types of classifier can be trained very easily or you can just download the weights for a model online (there are quite a few).
As an aside I don't think anybody ever wanted SFW gameplay. They wanted a NSFW game with a functional gameplay loop incorporating adult content.
Helius' proposal to split the game into NSFW and SFW was weird as fuck to say the least and I don't think any but the hardest superfans/Helius alt accounts had anything positive to say about it.
Your right about the ai part.
I was thinking about whole picture use for training and didnt had in mind that you can train on partial components and then merge those results.
Kind of a brainfart on my part and due to the fact that its not my area of expertise in training ai myself.
But i can see that training on just faces as identifier and then on nude content and merge those identifiers will most likely give you a pretty good hit chance of illegal content.
There is still a small amount of pics that may make it thru to that kind of filter at least for now.
Discord at least has a filter that can detect nudity and it may also include a illegal filter but thats not bulletproof.
Otherwise we wouldnt even have to talk about it or heard of it.
As for the sfw gameplay.... yeah there are people out there waiting on it or at least constantly calling it out not come to fruition.
There is of course a 4th group when it comes to this board and that is the group that is unhappy cause the cant get new content for free anymore. But i really dont think its worth much talking about as that is another game ... as in devs try to protect and pirates try to get stuff for free.
In the end, there really isnt much to play anyway and you may watch a pornhub video of the game instead and may get a better fap out of it than actually playing the good damn game at this point.
As an aside I don't think anybody ever wanted SFW gameplay. They wanted a NSFW game with a functional gameplay loop incorporating adult content.
Helius' proposal to split the game into NSFW and SFW was weird as fuck to say the least and I don't think any but the hardest superfans/Helius alt accounts had anything positive to say about it.
I can't say whether I wanted it or not because they never actually made it or revealed any info about it other than the most basic concepts. I know it was supposed to be a turn based tactical RPG, the girls were involved somehow, and I think it was supposed to be the main progression system before they did a 180 into gacha fomo grinding. What little I know about it still sounds better than what we ended up getting though.
Meta-complaining. You must have skipped most of the thread (which is understandable), since you also didn't add anything to the discussion that we haven't said several times before.
Wrong again and this is a perfect example of why it's so hard to have a discussion these days, people will try to play and bend words to fit whatever their narrative is:
Scam (verb) = to cheat somebody in order to get something, especially money, from them.
It is safe to say Scamlius has repeatedly incurred in lies, promises, silence, and doing whatever they please instead of what they promised to do, to gain supporters. Ergo, this is a scam. #alwayshasbeen
As with the other guy, I'd also tell you to take your own advice, since half of your argument was meta-complaining.
I'd say this is one of the few places where you can get somewhat unbiased reviews. Steam has none since they haven't officially launched, Steam discussions are Scamlius-controlled, same for their Discord. From the Ye's and No's in this thread people can get a general idea of where they are putting their money.
Add to your personal notes a fifth group, people that are sticking around for the show
That is something one shouldnt do in quotation marks.
I would like you to edit this and put either the original text there or delete this.
And put your interpretion under it.
I have nothing against your interpretation tho, as i see it as valuabe feedback and gives me reflection of my words, which indeed may have been a bit on the harsh side and i always have to remind myself that written text and wording sometimes cut deeper or is more hurting than one intends.
It was/is not my intend to shut this discussion down or convince people of one side or the other.
I stated my reason why i dont come here very often.
And i didnt called people stupid, called em butthurt. Which i should have phrased just as "hurt" in hindsight.
I added the fanboys part, cause i see fans often as more vulnerable of being hurt and ending in frustration when they dont get what they expected or want.
As for the scamming:
I tried to put this in words when i said " If something is then a scam or not is at this point in time more of an interpretion of scam "
thanks to my limited english its not 100% what i think about this or what i really meant.
I was/am more trying to say, i hope this is clearer, that the lines of where a scam begins, or a project turns out to be scam or if it was intended to be a scam are a matter of facts and or personal interpretation and therefor where the line is if someone identifies something as a scam for themself or not. And this is clearly diffrent for people.
Just look at something like star citizen and how divided the discussions about that project are, if it is a scam or not.
When it comes to Fallen Doll now Lovecraft project the facts are what you can see on the outside, but there are no trustworthy insider facts to base an opinion on.
Imo as i stated the translator wasent in a position to make a statement of further development based on the text he had to work on.
Discord Steam mod related stuff and Public relations communications are also a bit of a thing themself.
There was that modder that was supposedly joining the project and stated there was more than i thought or something. But how trustworthy is that?
Its all rumors from where i stand.
Some screenshots and the like one can see on old patreon posts are also more or less useless to see the current stage or stages or development for diffrent game modes.
That leaves us with the facts we can see and got and what the project was and has become in its diffrent stages and its creators behaviour and output.
And the interpretation of each and everyone of us of what we have witnessed or got.
And that also differs for people very much due to the fact that people joined this at diffrent points in time and with diffrent expectations.
I could produce a probably even longer text about how i see this all went down and how i see things but the text is already again in the tldr region and therefor i stop myself here.. and thats by the way why i said "nuff said"..
not to shut people up ... but to shut myself up
ha ha.
Alot of people that have experienced other unreal engine 5 games and previous launches of updates from this project have expected nothing less than pain and problems.
Why they dont start to make a second testing phase on a beta client via steam after having their internal testing is beyond me.
I mean he learned from last time and was able to do a rollback instead of just shutdown the servers again but why cant the guy just be a bit more professional and do one thing right?
Just let people try out the new client with a test server and then decide after feedback if its ready to publish for all or not.
The whole shitshow / rollback, could have again, be completly avoided.
And why switch to ue5 in the first place?
They spend around half a year to fix the performance and bugs for the ue4 client.
I suspect it has more todo with content and model protection again, as the ue4 client could be opened via tools and models extracted and that is much harder or currently not possible todo with the usual tools for ue5.
So its again a change in the project and wasting peoples money and time to protect something that will be out there at some point anyway and is not really relevant to income from patreon.
Graphics are only better in regards of shadow and lighting on highest setting which destroys fps and on low settings the game looked atrocios in the last update when comparing that to the ue4 client so all in all in would rate it as a downgrade for a lot of people on older hardware.
As for content ... migo adult is around a perfect 12 month late, as it was supposedly part of last years big rebuild and celia launch update.
This specific game has a pretty long history and is quite controversial.
So people have opinions and as Maestroofchaos put it, its probably the only place were you can discuss this or exchange thougts freely about it.
I would called it in rpg terms... people have diffrents stats.
Also were is the problem?
You either do have the attention / time / wil, to read it or you dont.
Added:
And its not like it would make sense of being subbed to this in hopes of a new crack and game client update.
I dont see that happen in the near future.
This specific game has a pretty long history and is quite controversial.
So people have opinions and as Maestroofchaos put it, its probably the only place were you can discuss this or exchange thougts freely about it.
short answer is probably a year at least. To have 4 so called season passes and the client relative bug free.
And i dont see the sfw gameplay part and other planned things being developed in that timeframe so i guess you could add to that at least another year.
So yeah my best guess at least 2 years.
And then we will see if people are willing to be on patreon or not for keeping this alive. Or if he then anounces something new to keep that running.
It's ultimately inconsequential, anyone with more than 1 neuron active at a time can tell the irony.
If you feel the need to report me for sarcasm then you may not be cut for online interactions at all. People act the way they do, not the way you think they should act.
Everyone tends to think differently on how they view a game.
